I've got the itch again - looking at $500-$1K DAC/Amps

[Xulonn]

In 2012, at the age of 70, I moved from Sonoma County in Northern California to Boquete, a small tourist, farming and ranching town in a valley on the slopes of Volcan Baru the mountains of Western Panama near the Costa Rica border where I could live better on my Social Security income here as an expat - my at the time, my only source of income was my SS pension.
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Before I left Northern California, I sold most of my belongings, including my living room and office stereo systems, and ripped all of my CD's to MP3. I bought a TEAC AH-01, an older and now discontinued IcePower Amp/DAC with 30wpc. I also bought a pair of the very well regarded Paradigm Atom V6 monitors, and an Intel Celeron NUC PC to use as an A/V player source. I brought the whole kit with me on the second of three trips with two suitcases and a carry-on, and then purchased a 32" LCD-TV here. I ended up with a limited range, but high-fidelity system - perfect for a retiree living in a modest little rental casita.

Because of my age, I thought that the Teac might be my last amplifier after 55 years of buying and selling audio gear, and I was quite happy with the system. Then 6 years later, the Teac died - shortly after a lightning strike hit a power pole right in front of my eyes about 50 yards outside my window. The lightning apparently bypassed the protection on my ups via my internet service cable. It even took out the old main breaker at my electric meter.

After the Teac failed (the local - and very talented) electronics repairman said the the main board needed replacement. I didn't even bother to price out a replacement main board for a 6 year old unit.

So I used my laptop and an old Trends T-amp temporarily until I could afford a better DAC and amp. I considered a tube or tube/SS hybrid, but instead bought an SMSL Q5. Although it wasn't a bad unit, the combination of no RCA's for line input and anemic power output led me to "upgrade" to an SMSL Sanskrit 6th DAC and a Topping PA-3 amp - my current electronics combo.

That combo is quite good for driving the Atoms, but I found a way to make a little extra money, and want to get back up to a larger DAC/AMP unit with Bluetooth and USB inputs. I wanted to try a Hypex-based amp, and NAD seemed to have some of the best budget implementations. However, after looking carefully at a couple of NAD offerings, I'm leaning towards another purchasing another TEAC IcePower DAC/AMP. Here are the three units that made it to my final list - finishing with my current choice - subject to change until the day I order something.

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NAD – D 3045 - $700 (too new for discounts or used/refurb), 60wpc @ 8Ω, Hypex amp, USB input, Bluetooth. Cheap plasticky design, looks to be nearly identical to the seemingly quite flawed D7050 "streaming amp" that Amir just reviewed. However, the reviews of the D3045 are mostly very positive.

NAD C-328 - $550 ($410 refurbished), 40wpc @ 8Ω Hypex amp, has Bluetooth, COAX, optical inputs, but no USB. Classic NAD plain & simple case, but it’s all metal, and not plasticky like the D-3045. It is a modern “airbox” case – lots of empty space inside. This one is tempting - I could always use my SMSL Sanskrit DAC if I really wanted to use USB.

Teac 503-AI - $900 (used units sometimes available). 30wpc @ 8Ω IcePower amp. Preamp out if I want more power. Bluetooth, USB, coax and optical inputs. Classy, solid looking and elegant industrial retro look, which I find very appealing. It has received some excellent reviews. My current plan is to save a couple of extra months and get the Teac – and drop-ship it via Amir for review.
I might even make a pair of cocobolo (our local true rosewood) side panels that don't stick out as far in front like the pseudo-rack handles, which are the only thing I don't like about the case design.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Don't have anything useful to add right now. But I do love cocobolo wood. Side panels of that would look really nice.

I recall from having some small pieces of it the wood was very dense. The page I copied this photo from said it won't float in water, and I can believe that. It is quite beautiful. This photo doesn't exaggerate.

 

[BillG]

Here's another ICEpower based amp you might like, at $450USD:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/07/review-smsl-a6-integrated-amplifier.html

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/08/measurements-smsl-a6-as-dac-part-ii.html

 

[BillG]

Here's another ICEpower based amp you might like, at $450USD:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/07/review-smsl-a6-integrated-amplifier.html

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/08/measurements-smsl-a6-as-dac-part-ii.html

Here's its big brother, the A8, at $600USD:


https://m.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-a8...-amplifier-audio-digital-power-amplifier.html

By the way, neither the A6 nor A8 have any onboard streaming capabilities. But there numerous, inexpensive Bluetooth and WiFi receivers on the market.

Another alternative, which does include streaming, is this:

https://www.amazon.com/d/Amplifiers/Yamaha-Audio-Component-Amplifier-Silver/B01EIBYRUA

 

[jsrtheta]

I would like to talk to you about the social security situation, because I am always semi-on-the-lookout for ways to stretch my ss payments.

But, back to your question: I said this just once before, and I claim no expertise nor a wide experience of NAD, but I have owned three NAD products, of which two failed within a couple of years, and the last (an amp) I thought was very cheaply made, parts-wise.

Having peeked under the hood of all of them (where, as with a car, I have no idea what I'm looking for), I have to say I have seen rice paper products that were more robust. But that's just me. Others swear by them, and I don't doubt their enthusiasm and likely superior knowledge. But frankly, IMHO, they traditionally have been made out of shite. I had one of their CD players and one of their DVD players, both failed, both built horribly out of flimsy materials. I still wonder how anything they made survived shipping. The amp was reasonably hefty, but still felt amazingly cheap.

As I said, the CD and DVD players failed. The amp survived, though not for long in my home.

 

[Xulonn]

The die is cast. I was unable to resist the influence of John-the-restorer. A 30lb (13.6kg) 1990's vintage used class AB 70wpc stereo power amplifier will arrive in Panama in July.

In order to have a more "robust" amp in the system, I had purchased a Ghent case from China and was waiting to order the ICEPower 200AS and 200ASC modules from Parts Express to finish up assembling it, but...

...then I came across an ad for a used Classe Model Seventy balanced 70wpc amplifier from the 1990's. Being familiar with the excellent reputation of Classe amps of that era, I checked it out. It was offered for sale by engineer/owner Rich Brkich of Signature Sound in upstate NY, a dealer from whom I had purchased a David Belles preamp nearly 20 years ago. Rich's customer service was excellent, and when the preamp arrived broken, Rich replaced it promptly with no hesitation. Even though he is a boutique high-end dealer who sells things like very expensive power cords and other audiophilia goodies that have no appeal for me, he knows electronics and checked the amp out thoroughly - and even ran it 24x7 playing FM radio in his office for a few days. Because it will cost about $150 to ship it to me in Panama, that "reliability testing" is important to me. The amp won't be here until mid-July, and I will report on it after it arrives and I have time to put it into my system and check it out. (Used Classe Model Seventy amps are not common on the used market, but when they do show up around the world, they typically sell for $300-500 depending on condition. Back in the mid 1990's they sold new for the equivalent of about $3k in today's dollars.)

My two-channel stereo system will be a simple modern one with one two digital sources and no preampifier per se. The sources are internet radio or NAS files > Daphile on an IntelNUC > Topping DX7s DAC via USB > Classe Seventy amplifier via balanced interconnects > Paradigm Atom v6 monitors via inexpensive 16ga generic speaker wire. (I might add room correction later.)

Total cost will be just under $1,600 total, and the only used component will be the Classe amplifier. My new Topping DX7s DAC/Headphone amp (purchased via Massdrop) has been playing in my system for several weeks. It has a volume control and a remote is available separately if I want one. It was reviewed by Amir and confirmed to be well engineered with excellent performance and is a solidly constructed component. For now, since my second Topping PA3 amp died, I put my "backup unit" an SMSL Q5 Pro DAC/amp into service, and I am using it as an "amp only" to drive my Paradigm Atom monitors until the Classe arrives.

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Specifications (from Classe and a CanuckAudioMart ad: High current design, sleek curved slimline chassis with dual heat sinks at rear, both regular and fully balanced operation switchable via internal gold plated jumpers.

• Rated Output : 70wpc@8Ω, 140wpc@4Ω
• Frequency Response : 20Hz to 20KHz +/- 0.1 dB
• Sensitivity : 900 mV in for rated output
• Input Impedance : 70 K Ohms
• S/N Ratio : >100 dB
• Dimensions: 19" x 11 3/4" x 4 7/8"
• Weight: 30 lbs
• 750 VA Toroidtech transformer (made in Woodridge, Ontario)
• 4 X Classe Audio 10,000µfd power supply capacitors (made in Canada)
• A variety of Philips, WIMA and Mallory capacitors inside.
• Bipolar transistors are Motorola, made in Japan, 2 X 2SA1302 and 2 X 2SC3281 per channel

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[HiFiSoundFarts]

Buy the meridian explorer for cheap, 300, or a Macintosh mha50, for 7p0

 

[HiFiSoundFarts]

Sounds too complicated of a setup for me, I prefer active speakers with built in Dac and dsp. Sounds better to me per dollar spent

 

[mikewxyz]

Xulonn: For the last 25 years, I've owned the Classe' Audio Model Seventy Amp and Model Four preamp. Zero problems with them. The Seventy was their budget offering back then; never felt a need to upgrade even when I had more cash.

 

[amirm]

Buy the meridian explorer for cheap, 300, or a Macintosh mha50, for 7p0

I have not published the Explorer results but did measure it a while back and it doesn't do well. There are many better choices in DACs.

 

[Thomas savage]

... stripper's and blow....

 

[Xulonn]

Xulonn: For the last 25 years, I've owned the Classe' Audio Model Seventy Amp and Model Four preamp. Zero problems with them. The Seventy was their budget offering back then; never felt a need to upgrade even when I had more cash.

Thanks for the reassurance, Mike. What speakers you driving with your Seventy?

I remember Classe as having a very good reputation in 90's when its products were well regarded as excellent audiophile components. However, I couldn't find any mainstream audio reviews for the Seventy - only a couple of discussions on the internet that were peppered with subjective blather. I have a friend here who has a pair of the bigger 90's Classe power amps in his home theater room in a much fancier house than my little rental casa. He's not an audiophile or even an audio enthusiast, but his Classe amps have worked here for over 15 years with no problems, and my $500 Teac DAC amp died after 6 years.

I hesitated on this purchase, because it is not cheap and easy to ship heavy amplifiers to Panama. I am buying it from a boutique audio dealer in upstate New York who is an engineer, and someone that I have dealt with in the past. He checked out the amp carefully, and ran it in his office listening to radio for a week, and that gave me the confidence I needed to buy it. I put a big deposit on it, and will wait for my next Social Security pension check before I finish paying for it plus surface shipping to Miami. Then It will taks about four days and about $90 to forward it to me via air freight. It should be here in 4-5 weeks.

The only repair service available nearby is the town's local independent electronics repair tech, who is good, but not well equipped like a typical U.S.A. repair facility. As with repairing old cars like my 1999 Montero diesel SUV here, you often have to get the parts yourself.

 

[mikewxyz]

Thanks for the reassurance, Mike. What speakers you driving with your Seventy?

I used the Classe' 70 to drive my DIY speakers (8 ohm) for 23 years. I have Sonus Faber Auditor M's now. Before buying the SF's, I emailed Classe' and they said no problem with a 4 ohm load. The spec sheet that came with the amp has it as 75W into 8 Ohms and 150 into 4 Ohms. Marketing always derates the 8 Ohm capability in order to get the mythical double at 4 Ohms. So, plenty of power for well behaved loads.

Back in the day, I read a couple reviews before I bought the 70. It was so long ago that not many made it to the internet. I could only find this one.

https://hometheaterreview.com/classe-thirty-preamp-and-the-seventy-power-amp-reviewed/

 

[Xulonn]

My used Classe Model Seventy - a 30-lb, 70wpc class AB amplifier that I purchased for $400, arrived yesterday. It only cost $86 to forward it to Panama from Miami. The amp is in near mint condition - amazing for a 25 y/o component.

I also received my monthly Amazon order yesterday which contained my Vitrius 3' balanced "Pro" XLR cables - they are very well made and a good tight fit for $28 per pair. .

So I popped the top and set the input selection jumpers for balanced inputs. The fit and finish are execllent - no rough edges, and all of the holes line up which meant no pushing and jiggling to get the screws back in. I then connected it to my DAC and speakers, and it works perfectly. It seems to have more grunt at higher volume, and I hear no noise except for a very slight mechanical transformer hum with my ear next it, which I can also feel when I touch the case - but no tingling when I touch the case, just as it should be with a well-designed amp with proper grounding. It feels barely warm to the touch - and only above the transformer - after running all day playing internet radio at fairly low levels.

Below is a picture of the Classe 70 with a Ghent amplifier case sitting on it. The Ghent is a project for later this year after I buy a pair of 70w ICEpower amp modules from Parts Express. On the very top is one of my two dead Topping 40wpc PA3 amps that are not rated at 4Ω and 1% distortion - because according to topping customer service, the amp will overheat before reaching 1%.

 

[Wombat]

Bad luck with the Toppings. Were you over-driving them or weren't they up to mfrs claims?

I am not convinced that the PSs in cheap little-box power amps are durable.

The Classe looks classy in its simple appearance.