It is really worth it for me to buy Dr Toole's Sound Reproduction book?

[TheBatsEar]

Thanks, but I couldn't part a stranger from his beer money.

If the money has to go right this instance, consider this: https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/
One of the few charities i have identified as worthy while looking to loose some change.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Got it yesterday. Flipped through it quickly yeaterday and decided to read the section for headphones first......Call me disappointed.....3 pages only and basically admitted that Dr. Olive did a better job.

Ended up reading Dr Olives article at https://acousticstoday.org/he-perce...uality-what-do-listeners-prefer-sean-e-olive/ using my smartphone and hurting my eyes.
: (

What if Dr Olive never did the research? What golden headphone preference curve would Amir use now? Maybe we will be arguing about why most people in the world would prefer flat bass?

I got to wonder. If a very well done preference research for headphones can basically invalidated by another research, how much faith do I have for preference based research for speakers?

Sorry for the negative tone. But, still, hmmm......

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Got it yesterday. Flipped through it quickly yeaterday and decided to read the section for headphones first......Call me disappointed.....3 pages only and basically admitted that Dr. Olive did a better job.

Ended up reading Dr Olives article at https://acousticstoday.org/he-perce...uality-what-do-listeners-prefer-sean-e-olive/ using my smartphone and hurting my eyes.
: (

What if Dr Olive never did the research? What golden headphone preference curve would Amir use now? Maybe we will be arguing about why most people in the world would prefer flat bass?

I got to wonder. If a very well done preference research for headphones can basically invalidated by another research, how much faith do I have for preference based research for speakers?

Sorry for the negative tone. But, still, hmmm......

View attachment 196092

See the subtitle on the front cover: “… of Louspeakers and Rooms …”. The book doesn’t claim to be about headphones. Also in your initial post you asked, if you could learn something about your speaker setup and therefore people rightfully recommended the book. That you are now disappointed that the book is not about headphones is difficult to understand. Or am I missing something?

 

[Pdxwayne]

See the subtitle on the front cover: “… of Louspeakers and Rooms …”. The book doesn’t claim to be about headphones. Also in your initial post you asked, if you could learn something about your speaker setup and therefore people rightfully recommended the book. That you are now disappointed that the book is not about headphones is difficult to understand. Or am I missing something?

Amir said there are much more than just speakers. So I expect more.

: P

 

[okaudio]

Amir said there are much more than just speakers. So I expect more.

: P

I believe that would be the "and Rooms" part.

 

[freemansteve]

How many tracks does it have, and is it Rock?

I've not read it. I generally prefer e.g. Michael Connolly, or buying music, both of which might make me happy.
I fear a book like this will just spoil my equilibrium, as I have no more funds for HiFi kit....

 

[Pdxwayne]

I believe that would be the "and Rooms" part.

Haha.

Since both Dr Toole and Olive said the Harman headphone curve matches preferred speakers curved in a good room, it makes me wonder about the other way around.

If people prefer headphones curve that is not the same as Harman curve, what does it mean? Is Dr Toole's claim (as mentioned in above paragraph) still valid?

There is another research mentioned by Olive in

The Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality- What Do Listeners Prefer? - Sean E. Olive

acousticstoday.org

It is about the Lorho (2009) research that said 80 listeners on average preferred just 3db peak at 3khz. This is significantly different than the harman preference curve. It seems Olive did not test any headphones with such profile either.......Yeah, I wonder....

 

[okaudio]

Haha.

Since both Dr Toole and Olive said the Harman headphone curve matches preferred speakers curved in a good room, it makes me wonder about the other way around.

Not sure I follow ... if the speaker curves match the headphone curves there is no other way around, they are the same right?
Might be worthwhile to read the conclusion on the link you provided, basically says the preferred curves are the same for both.

The great thing these days is you can adjust the curve to whatever you enjoy and it's likely easier to do with headphones vs speakers in a room.

 

[TheBatsEar]

If people prefer headphones curve that is not the same as Harman curve, what does it mean?

Means not everyone likes what most like.

Is Dr Toole's claim (as mentioned in above paragraph) still valid?

Probably yes. He doesn't talk about individuals but groups.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Not sure I follow ... if the speaker curves match the headphone curves there is no other way around, they are the same right?
Might be worthwhile to read the conclusion on the link you provided, basically says the preferred curves are the same for both.

The great thing these days is you can adjust the curve to whatever you enjoy and it's likely easier to do with headphones vs speakers in a room.

Means not everyone likes what most like.


Probably yes. He doesn't talk about individuals but groups.

What I am trying to say is this:
There is another research of 80 people that contradicted Dr Olive's conclusion.

I am curious if Dr Olive already explored that theory or not.

Here is the screenshot of Dr Olive's paper that mentioned the research:

 

[okaudio]

What I am trying to say is this:
There is another research of 80 people that contradicted Dr Olive's conclusion.

I am curious if Dr Olive already explored that theory or not.

Here is the screenshot of Dr Olive's paper that mentioned the research:
View attachment 196232

Hard to say without digging into the study details but it is only a sample of 80 people so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Hard to say without digging into the study details but it is only a sample of 80 people so take it with a grain of salt.

For it to spark new interest to find better curve and for it to be part of aes paper at https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=14966 I would assume it is a good quality research? I will not pay $33 for it though...
; )

 

[okaudio]

Link returns this ...

There was an error with your request.​

 

[Pdxwayne]

Link returns this ...

There was an error with your request.​

Corrected. You can try again.

 

[okaudio]

Corrected. You can try again.

Looks like you have to pay to read it.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Looks like you have to pay to read it.

Yeah, not going to pay $33.

: (

 

[iMickey503]

http://lib.tkk.fi/Diss/2010/isbn9789526031965/isbn9789526031965.pdf

 

[Pdxwayne]

http://lib.tkk.fi/Diss/2010/isbn9789526031965/isbn9789526031965.pdf

Thanks! This is by the same author, but is different than the one I listed. Still, it shows that the author indeed seems to know what he is doing.
: )

 

[Jim Shaw]

If what you are really seeking are more visceral kick drum thumps, electric guitar twangs, and crispy high hat clashes, Toole might not be your cup of tea.
Maybe just smoke that blunt your buddy gave you for your birthday, spend a bunch more money, settle into your Barcolounger, and turn up the volume.

Toole is a scientific approach to sound reproduction, not Betty Crocker.
And the Earth really is more nearly spherical.

 

[IPunchCholla]

If what you are really seeking are more visceral kick drum thumps, electric guitar twangs, and crispy high hat clashes, Toole might not be your cup of tea.
Maybe just smoke that blunt your buddy gave you for your birthday, spend a bunch more money, settle into your Barcolounger, and turn up the volume.

Toole is a scientific approach to sound reproduction, not Betty Crocker.
And the Earth really is more nearly spherical.

Why wouldn’t Toole apply to rock or rap or pop?