It begs the question...

[Vacceo]

Because some people want big, mean, badass looking gear. I've had several audiophile sales people say they cannot sell small stuff. It's not a functional thing, it's a form thing. It's an audio muscle car.

It´s an unfair comparison. Muscle cars do have the torque, speed and handling that is not comparable to an utilitarian. We are talking about a chasis, not the performance.

 

[Axo1989]

It´s an unfair comparison. Muscle cars do have the torque, speed and handling that is not comparable to an utilitarian. We are talking about a chasis, not the performance.

If you are talking about classic muscle cars, they don't really. Quite prosaic modern cars will have more capable engines and dynamics, and their lap times will be faster (like modern amps that look like toys). But if you like the aesthetics (not to mention the sonics) they are fabulous.

I ran into an old work friend at a local cafe the other day, her partner was taking a classic Dodge Charger something out for a spin. Last time (it's been a while) it was a Corvette. I wasn't even alive when those things were new, but these examples were immaculately restored and pretty cool.

 

[radix]

It´s an unfair comparison. Muscle cars do have the torque, speed and handling that is not comparable to an utilitarian. We are talking about a chasis, not the performance.

I was using "muscle car" as a metaphor for something highly visible, eye catching, attention grabbing. The flashy stereo will have watts (kilowatts) and frequency and bass extension and other stats like a muscle car has its stats. That does not make it nice to listen to or nice to drive.

 

[Waxx]

It´s an unfair comparison. Muscle cars do have the torque, speed and handling that is not comparable to an utilitarian. We are talking about a chasis, not the performance.

A Porche 911 has that also, with a 3.8L turbocharged flat6 boxer engine (in the actual version) and a small light car, and it got more than most muscle cars like that. What kind of musccle car can pul from 0 to 60 in 2.7 seconds? Or be very nimble in corners (when you know the car). A Porche 911 Turbo S can do that and while doing that it uses (WPLT measured) 12.5L/100km. (18.8 miles to the gallon) which is a lot less than those American mussclecars.

And altough it's a sportscar, it's stil utilitarian also, it has a trunk (up front) and a backbench that is only fit to dump stuff one. I drove one for about 2 years (the car of an ex of me) and went shopping with it, drove inner cities at 30km/h over speedbumps and so, parked it in small parking spaces. But on other days i was doing 300km/h on the German highway (where it's allowed) or on the (F1) circuit of Spa Francourchamps (during track days)...

And another question is, why would you need a muscle car, it's not practical to bring you from point a to b, it just looks flashy, makes a lot of noise and smoke and goes fast straight forward. But it does not handle well in twisty roads, it's very fuel hungry and needs a lot of maintenance... I actually prefer my very utilitarian Skoda Octavia Wagon above it (and it's also more practical than the Porche), it also goes fast (fest enough for daily traffic) but it has all the qualities that a musccle car misses (Cheap but solid build, big trunk, easy to drive, low maintenance and fuel consumption and very good handling).

 

[Vacceo]

You don´t have to convince me, I drive a Volvo, cannot get more utilitarian than that.

 

[Timcognito]

2023 V60 Recharge 0-60 mph in 4.3 seconds with room for junk in the trunk. Now that's a Volvo

 

[Axo1989]

Haha the car analogy takes off.

 

[Axo1989]

I was using "muscle car" as a metaphor for something highly visible, eye catching, attention grabbing. The flashy stereo will have watts (kilowatts) and frequency and bass extension and other stats like a muscle car has its stats. That does not make it nice to listen to or nice to drive.

I'm sure some flashy amps sound great. If you are shopping in that price range maybe you can jet around the continent to listen to them and be fawned over. But tastes certainly vary, I prefer cleaner lines and understated excess—Krell Evolution not D'Agostino steampunk—personally.

Decadence and waste in an age of scarcity should be heavily ridiculed and frowned upon.

I missed your earlier comment. I'm guessing Putin's sanctioned oligarchs have sound systems that fit your criteria in every house and yacht, and our frowns are their intoxicant. Until the revolution.

 

[DMill]

To give them credit, their website is Positive Feedback and thats what they give, 100% of the time so we cant claim that they are misleading us.

And I do love reading these types of sites but my favorite site is Mono and Stereo, not for the reviews…

View attachment 237253

What is that row of crap in front of the rack? For that kind of money it should at least look good. And throw down a carpet for God’s sake. What an utter waste of money.

 

[Waxx]

You don´t have to convince me, I drive a Volvo, cannot get more utilitarian than that.

yes you can, that's why volkswagen reformed the old Chech brand Skoda to what it is now, rocksolid, everything works like it should and form follow function for a relative low budget. A Volvo these days is too expensive and "high end finished" for being utilitarian. You don't want to move furniture with a Volvo (because you will have scratch damage), a Skoda and it's hard plastic protection does not care at all..

The only other brand i know who does that a bit is Dacia, an old Romanian brand that is now used by the Renault group for the same reason as Volkswagen does with Skoda. But i don't think those brands are sold in the US.

This is how my car looks (mine is almost the same), a 2019 Skoda Octavia Wagon 1.0 TFSI. And that 1L 3 cilinder turbocharged petrol motor still pushes 110pk and 200nm torque. That is enough for this car, even in a hilly region with infamous tough slopes where i live. But the car is rock solid and never gives up. I had one before and it still drives arround with the new owner, 8 years after i moved to a new car (and 12 years old now).

 

[Holmz]

yes you can, that's why volkswagen reformed the old Chech brand Skoda to what it is now, rocksolid, everything works like it should and form follow function for a relative low budget. A Volvo these days is too expensive and "high end finished" for being utilitarian. You don't want to move furniture with a Volvo (because you will have scratch damage), a Skoda and it's hard plastic protection does not care at all..

The only other brand i know who does that a bit is Dacia, an old Romanian brand that is now used by the Renault group for the same reason as Volkswagen does with Skoda. But i don't think those brands are sold in the US.

This is how my car looks (mine is almost the same), a 2019 Skoda Octavia Wagon 1.0 TFSI. And that 1L 3 cilinder turbocharged petrol motor still pushes 110pk and 200nm torque. That is enough for this car, even in a hilly region with infamous tough slopes where i live. But the car is rock solid and never gives up. I had one before and it still drives arround with the new owner, 8 years after i moved to a new car (and 12 years old now).

You sort of glossed over the history of Emil Škoda, which was a bit similar to Kaiser in the US.
(Concrete, Dams, Liberty Ships, and health care.)

Neither seemed to be overly involved in audio though.

 

[pablolie]

Car madness is now destined to death - the age of EVs and self-driving in my opinion has already killed car fun. Performance envelopes became a major fun differentiator for some time, but the era of 12, 8 or even 6 cylinders has come to an end, emissions dictate 4 cylinders with turbos etc. And don't get me started on active driving aids... I abhor them. I don't want a car that brakes by itself suddenly because "something" is close to its sensors etc

And the car metaphor doesn't quite fly with me - cars quickly become irrational objects too, but while we experience "bad performance" very quickly when we try out audio equipment, with cars it's more of an awareness about a performance envelope that is never available on most public roads aka a performance envelope you'll never ever experience unless you do track days and are OK with damaging your car.

*Both* are irrational choices is you go for performance numbers, but with audio I can safely explore the envelope, whereas with a car (or sports motorcycle, my preferred thrill) it is impossible to truly explore boundaries unless you're one of the top 1% drivers/riders on the planet and have access to a track.

 

[MattHooper]

Positive Feedback never met a tweak they didn't like. As far as I can see, they are the tweakiest of all the audiophile sites.

It's always a hoot the way there are endless veils to be lifted. Upgrade your amp's fuse? Veil lifted. Upgrade your cables? Viel lifted. Put them on risers. Another viel lifted. Add new expensive AC cables, another viel lifted. Plug everything in to a power conditioner. Viels lifted. Put your DAC on footers? Viel lifted.
Your amp? Another veil. Your preamp? More veils.

The lowering of the noise floor, and the ability of the audiophile to hear ever further down that black hole, never ends. Surely at this point they are listening through the very noise floor of the Big Bang.

I think we should get these Golden Eared folks to listen for alien life on other planets.

 

[RayDunzl]

One of the real tragedies of our hobby is you really can't have a beautiful panoramic, floor to ceiling 360 degree glass walled view of your favorite skyline, and listen to edge of the art home audio
sound at the same time.

I like this room.

Real, not an advertisement.

 

[pablolie]

Positive Feedback never met a tweak they didn't like. As far as I can see, they are the tweakiest of all the audiophile sites.

It's always a hoot the way there are endless veils to be lifted. Upgrade your amp's fuse? Veil lifted. Upgrade your cables? Viel lifted. Put them on risers. Another viel lifted. Add new expensive AC cables, another viel lifted. Plug everything in to a power conditioner. Viels lifted. Put your DAC on footers? Viel lifted.
Your amp? Another veil. Your preamp? More veils.

The lowering of the noise floor, and the ability of the audiophile to hear ever further down that black hole, never ends. Surely at this point they are listening through the very noise floor of the Big Bang.

I think we should get these Golden Eared folks to listen for alien life on other planets.

We like to be totally contrarian because that permeates our society. Anyone that joined Usenet discussion forums in the 90s knows how quickly things get polarized when everybody has the power of an anonymous online voice.

One thing has never ever changed for those of us that were into audio before things spun off into ridiculous esoteric stuff in many areas. The main rules were (and in my opinion still continue to be):

1. Buy the best speaker you can afford, but make sure you like it
2. Really. Go back to 1.
3. Great electronics are hard to tell apart. Even when the design is over 15 years apart.
4. We have grown beyond the measurement relevance era (unless designers are incompetent or obstinate)
5. We live in the "augmented features that make optimized audio consumption easier" era... but that requires equipment with features that support that

 

[pablolie]

I like this room.

Real, not an advertisement.

I saw this in the Stereophile forums.

Spectacular setup.

Not sure an all glass background would be my target for a hero system.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I like this room.

It is pretty...
Knowing the speakers, even though I understand the aesthetic appeal, I would look at alternatives.

Along with the beautiful Martin Logans, I spy a beautiful Oracle Delphi off to the side. Odd choice of preamps. Maybe there is a screen that drops down and this is a multi-channel room?

 

[JSmith]

It does look fantastic and well set up, although I hope the owner has those rocks there for aesthetic purposes to match the outdoors landscape, rather than thinking they're magic audio rocks.


JSmith

 

[Vacceo]

yes you can, that's why volkswagen reformed the old Chech brand Skoda to what it is now, rocksolid, everything works like it should and form follow function for a relative low budget. A Volvo these days is too expensive and "high end finished" for being utilitarian. You don't want to move furniture with a Volvo (because you will have scratch damage), a Skoda and it's hard plastic protection does not care at all..

The only other brand i know who does that a bit is Dacia, an old Romanian brand that is now used by the Renault group for the same reason as Volkswagen does with Skoda. But i don't think those brands are sold in the US.

This is how my car looks (mine is almost the same), a 2019 Skoda Octavia Wagon 1.0 TFSI. And that 1L 3 cilinder turbocharged petrol motor still pushes 110pk and 200nm torque. That is enough for this car, even in a hilly region with infamous tough slopes where i live. But the car is rock solid and never gives up. I had one before and it still drives arround with the new owner, 8 years after i moved to a new car (and 12 years old now).

Mine is from 1999. Dacia seats are abominable for my black.

 

[fatoldgit]

I like this room.

Real, not an advertisement.

I can understand the reasons but with a little bit of effort (and a bit of money) they could have a thick, motor driven curtain (hidden in some nice case work) that could come down for night listening/serious listening.

I did that for a mate with a similar layout/vista (although his view was rolling rural countryside). Sure its not the best front of room treatment but better than glass.

Also added a discreet ceiling cloud. With such high ceilings you dont really see it when you walk in.

Best of both worlds.

Placement seems symmetrical and maybe I see some effort on the visible side wall to handle 1st reflections.