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Issues with Topping EX5 and desktop system setup

drchen

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Dear all,

Thanks everyone very much for reading this rookie post! I would appreciate any comments.

I used to have my desktop set up as:

My PC (Asus PRIME B660-PLUS D4) > WireWorld Ultraviolet 7 > iFi Audio iPurifier 2 (USB Purifier) > iFi Audio nano iDSD (first version) > Neo by Oyaide d+ RXM (Class B) RCA to XLR > Genelec 8010a

To my ears, this system serves me well, it sounds great, the sound stage compared to what I had before is amazingly wide and clear, with no strange noise or hums, just very annoyed by the fact that the volume control on Nano iDSD is very good, there is always latency in controlling. Also, Nano iDSD runs kind of on battery with specs slightly out of date.

Recently there has been an offer for Topping EX5 on Amazon, I thought maybe XLR to XLR could be nicer, and EX5 in terms of specs and perhaps all aspects is better than Nano iDSD, so I changed my system into:

My PC > WireWorld Ultraviolet 7 > iFi Audio iPurifier 2 > Topping EX5 > Neo by Oyaide d+ XLR (Class B) XLR to XLR > Genelec 8010a

But I noticed a few differences or issues:

1, if I turn on Topping EX5 first then the 8010a, then the PC, the left channel always has a short period of some noise or hum produced before EX5 accepts all the signal from Windows 11 and is fully loaded. Does it mean maybe I got a bad EX5? Is this kind of noise normal? Actually also some very short noise/hum might be produced during the system is fully loaded sometimes. (perhaps I need to take a video and upload to somewhere to let people see it)

2, point 1 made me think, could this be the problem of iFi iPurifier 2, which maybe is quite unnecessary? What is the best way to clean up USB noise?

3, when is system is fully loaded and idle, if my ear is very very close to 8010a, I can hear some background noise, is this normal?

4, there is always a ticking/clicking loud noise when I try DSD playback using foobar2000, why is that, is it something avoidable?

5, I feel from 8010a, there is less clarity from EX5 for some reason, and slightly less punchy or sharp, I am not sure whether this observation is real or psychological, this is just a comment, but I do appreciate it is actually easier to use, especially the volume control knob.
 
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Berwhale

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Welcome to ASR!

1 - Not sure about this one. My EX5 powers on automatically when the PC is woken, I never turn it off fully. My iLoud MTM (and Presonus Sub8) power is controlled via an IR mains switch. I don't hear any strange noises when I turn the MTMs, they just take a bit longer than the Sub8.

2 - Using balanced connections between the EX5 and 8010a's should greatly reduce, possibly remove, the chance of audible ground issues. You shouldn't need the iFi widget in the chain. I actually bought my EX5 to fix a ground loop issue I had with the Topping x50 stack - more about my experience here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e50-l50-impressions.30641/page-2#post-1194959

3 - It's usual to hear some self noise from active monitors up close. The amount of noise varies greatly between manufactures/models and some people seem more sensitive to it than others. I sent a pair of JBL 305P Mk II's back because I couldn't stand them - but these are know to be noisy monitors (though excellent in other regards)

4 - No idea - I don't play DSD.

5 - I wouldn't worry about this unless you've done a blind and level matched comparison between the sources.
 

yllanos

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Fellow EX5 owner here.

So let me understand: are you connecting from PC to EX5 using an HDMI cable through an audio purifier?

Why not just simplify the process? connect the EX5 and PC via USB and then XLR from DAC to speakers. Go from there.
 

Sokel

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4, there is always a ticking/clicking loud noise when I try DSD playback using foobar2000, why is that, is it something avoidable?
What do you use for volume control?
 
OP
drchen

drchen

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Welcome to ASR!

1 - Not sure about this one. My EX5 powers on automatically when the PC is woken, I never turn it off fully. My iLoud MTM (and Presonus Sub8) power is controlled via an IR mains switch. I don't hear any strange noises when I turn the MTMs, they just take a bit longer than the Sub8.

2 - Using balanced connections between the EX5 and 8010a's should greatly reduce, possibly remove, the chance of audible ground issues. You shouldn't need the iFi widget in the chain. I actually bought my EX5 to fix a ground loop issue I had with the Topping x50 stack - more about my experience here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e50-l50-impressions.30641/page-2#post-1194959

3 - It's usual to hear some self noise from active monitors up close. The amount of noise varies greatly between manufactures/models and some people seem more sensitive to it than others. I sent a pair of JBL 305P Mk II's back because I couldn't stand them - but these are know to be noisy monitors (though excellent in other regards)

4 - No idea - I don't play DSD.

5 - I wouldn't worry about this unless you've done a blind and level matched comparison between the sources.
Thanks very much for such a detailed reply and the welcome!

I actually tried yesterday evening, I removed iFi iPurifier from the setup, when I turned the PC on, the noise disappeared! It is apparently some active noise-cancelling stuff happening by iPurifier. I don't think I need this anymore, the whole iFi system can go on eBay now...

But I do still hear some noise during the system is full loaded, I suspect something went funny with my USB cable, the WireWorld Ultraviolet 7 which is 5m long, I am going to try another USB cable to rule it out.
 
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drchen

drchen

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OP
drchen

drchen

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Sokel

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On EX5, I just use the volume control knob or the remote controller.
DSD cannot be used with digital volume control,I don't know how the EX5 does it thought,if it's analog OK but if it's digital it should be at 100% to play DSD properly.
(be very careful with it,we don't want to blow something).
 
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drchen

drchen

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DSD cannot be used with digital volume control,I don't know how the EX5 does it thought,if it's analog OK but if it's digital it should be at 100% to play DSD properly.
(be very careful with it,we don't want to blow something).
Ah OK I see what you meant, so in windows the volume is always on 100%. On EX5 I turn it on roughly to 25-30 as displayed. Indeed it is the DAC directly controlling the DSD playback by foobar.
 
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drchen

drchen

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Just an update on the noise issues that occasionally happen, I suspect it is the same as: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ise-while-moving-mouse-usb-ground-loop.10599/

Basically it is the USB noise, however I am very puzzle as I use XLR to XLR from my Topping EX5 to Genelec 8010a. The fact that this didn't happen in my iFi nano iDSD perhaps is due to nano iDSD relies on the USB power in addition to the data transfer, for some reason, there was not any issue with the USB ground loop. Whereas in Topping EX5, it uses external power, USB power is not being used then creating such ground loop problem?

What I am going to test next:
- change the XLR cables to see if it improves, which I doubt
- since I can't really change a motherboard, I just ordered an iFi iDefender+, hoping it closes the ground loop issues

Maybe I am completely wrong, I would appreciate any comments and suggestions!
 

Berwhale

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In my experience, the iFi iDefender+ did not work at all to fix the issue I had with my Topping x50 stack. But a cheap Nobsound USB isolator did work...


I ordered both from Amazon at the same time and sent the iFi straight back :)

That said, moving from the x50 stack to the EX5 with fully balanced connections to my sub & monitors also fully resolved any ground loop issues.

Prior to acquiring the EX5, I added a TosLink adapter to my motherboard and switching to optical also resolved the issue...


Note that both the USB isolator and optical connection will limit the same rate at which you can drive your DAC (iirc, to 96k for the USB isolator and 192k for the Toslink - if you are lucky!). Whether this is an audible concern is another matter - I use eAPO to equalize both my monitors and headphones and everything is output to the EX5 at 96k anyway :)
 
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drchen

drchen

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In my experience, the iFi iDefender+ did not work at all to fix the issue I had with my Topping x50 stack. But a cheap Nobsound USB isolator worked...


I ordered both from Amazon at the same time and sent the iFi straight back :)

That said, moving from the x50 stack to the EX5 with full balanced connections to sub/monitors also fully resolved any ground loop issues.

Prior to acquiring the EX5, I also added a TosLink adapter to my motherboard. Switching to an optical connection also resolved the issue...


Note that both the USB isolator and optical connection will limit the same rate at which you can drive your DAC (iirc, to 96k for the USB isolator and 192k for the Toslink - if you are lucky!). Whether this is an audible concern is another matter - I use eAPO to equalize both my monitors and headphones and everything is output to the EX5 at 96k anyway :)
Wow, thanks again for the experience! Very helpful!

If USB works, I would try to stay on it. The other option that came into my mind again is TOPPING HS01 USB 2.0 High Speed Audio Isolator, it looks like it is more sophisticated.
 

Berwhale

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Wow, thanks again for the experience! Very helpful!

If USB works, I would try to stay on it. The other option that came into my mind again is TOPPING HS01 USB 2.0 High Speed Audio Isolator, it looks like it is more sophisticated.

Yes, it is and will not place any limitations on sample rate (it wasn't available when I had my issue and similar devices were much more expensive)
 
OP
drchen

drchen

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Hi folks, just some updates:

So I finally figured out what is going on with these noises, which I can’t really believe, it is some radio signal interference from my iPhone XR when sometimes it receives signals while close to the XLR connectors…

Nothing was wrong with USB’s ground loop, iDefender didn’t work, Topping HS01 didn’t work, switching to mains conditioner Tacima CS947 didn’t work, changing XLR cables from Neo by Oyaide d+ XLR (Class B) cables to Van Damme Tour Grade XKE cables didn’t work. Changing to UDG USB cables with ferrite beads didn’t work. Even getting a EX5 replacement from Amazon didn’t help..

As long as the iPhone is in flight mode, deadly silent..

So the new plan is to get the Van Damme Starquad cables with Neutrik EMC XLR connectors to see if ferrite beads within the connectors would help.
 

Berwhale

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Hi folks, just some updates:

So I finally figured out what is going on with these noises, which I can’t really believe, it is some radio signal interference from my iPhone XR when sometimes it receives signals while close to the XLR connectors…

Nothing was wrong with USB’s ground loop, iDefender didn’t work, Topping HS01 didn’t work, switching to mains conditioner Tacima CS947 didn’t work, changing XLR cables from Neo by Oyaide d+ XLR (Class B) cables to Van Damme Tour Grade XKE cables didn’t work. Changing to UDG USB cables with ferrite beads didn’t work. Even getting a EX5 replacement from Amazon didn’t help..

As long as the iPhone is in flight mode, deadly silent..

So the new plan is to get the Van Damme Starquad cables with Neutrik EMC XLR connectors to see if ferrite beads within the connectors would help.

Why don't you just move the iPhone away from the XLR connectors? Also, that fact that this happens near the connectors suggests that the interference is being picked up by the connectors and/or the EX5 chassis. Changing the cable may not help.

I had a similar issue with a DECT cordless phone on my desk and my Topping A50s/D50s. The solution was to simply move the phone to another part of my desk (after getting over the belief that the phone was in the optimal position on my desk and that it should not be moved!).

*edit* Another thought... Have you tried taking the Bluetooth aerial off the EX5?
 
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drchen

drchen

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Why don't you just move the iPhone away from the XLR connectors? Also, that fact that this happens near the connectors suggests that the interference is being picked up by the connectors and/or the EX5 chassis. Changing the cable may not help.

I had a similar issue with a DECT cordless phone on my desk and my Topping A50s/D50s. The solution was to simply move the phone to another part of my desk (after getting over the belief that the phone was in the optimal position on my desk and that it should not be moved!).

*edit* Another thought... Have you tried taking the Bluetooth aerial off the EX5?
Good thought! If it is the chassis problem probably new cables won’t work!

Agree that the simplest and most effective solution is just to move the phone away or maybe find a sweet point where there is no interference (or just turn it into flight mode). Also since I don’t use the Bluetooth function, I didn’t put the aerial on.
 
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drchen

drchen

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I would try putting the aerial in and see if it makes a difference.
I did for the returned one, when the aerial is on, it didn’t make a difference.
 
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drchen

drchen

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Why don't you just move the iPhone away from the XLR connectors? Also, that fact that this happens near the connectors suggests that the interference is being picked up by the connectors and/or the EX5 chassis. Changing the cable may not help.

I had a similar issue with a DECT cordless phone on my desk and my Topping A50s/D50s. The solution was to simply move the phone to another part of my desk (after getting over the belief that the phone was in the optimal position on my desk and that it should not be moved!).

*edit* Another thought... Have you tried taking the Bluetooth aerial off the EX5?
Just another thought, actually when the phone is close to the XLR connector to the 8010a speakers' end, the noise would come up if the phone is receiving the signal. So I think it is unlikely the chassis of the EX5 causing the problem. Unless 8010a speakers are just poorly shielded as well...
 
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drchen

drchen

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Hi folks,
Just an update if anyone is interested, following the previous plan to use Neutrik EMC-XLR cable connectors. So the new XLR cables to 8010a speakers with Neutrik EMC are on now, which don't eliminate the mobile phone interference completely. If the phone is literally above the XLR connectors, the noises remain produced. But if the phone is somewhere else on the desk, it seems there is some improvement. By the way, if I use my Sennheiser HD600 headphones, it is completely fine. I can't say I am 110% happy, but I will leave this for now. I am just super curious how that happens electronically-wise, and if anyone else with EX5 experiences such phenomenon.
Thanks all for the kind replies!
Cheers
 
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