IsoAcoustics Isolation Feet - Does it really make positive effect or fancy accessories

[Gitfiddle]

Timbre is the subjective side of sound (psychoacoustics). Frequency response is the physical side (acoustics).

Historically we have tended to associate timbre with a particular source, like an instrument. The thing has a particular timbre. But fundamentally the word refers to what we hear. How the instrument performs, how it radiates sound into the world, without reference to a particular listener, that's frequency response.

Here we get into perceptual limitations of what speakers are able to do, whether they are convincing or not. They are reproducers, middlemen, messengers. A lot of this has to do with the quality of the recording. The physical characteristics of speakers also impact how well this can be done, and those things we can reliably measure and discuss. What aspects of measured physical quantities matter and actually impact subjective timbre have been studied as well through controlled listening tests.

That is a better and more detailed way to put it than I did.

 

[Curvature]

That is a better and more detailed way to put it than I did.

My version is nerdier

 

[knownothing]

This discussion is helpful and I appreciate the effort to explain why frequency response is relevant and central to the discussion. What I am left wondering still is how measuring frequency response sweep measurements in any dimension addresses potential accuracy or error in timing, either due to driver capability, enclosure performance or due to external vibration entering the cabinet.

Again, from the product designer: “Any artefacts that are common in both channels are perceived to be in the middle and result in a collapsed and two-dimensional phantom image. Managing internal reflections is essential to preserving clarity, precision, and spatial definition. The artefacts are timing variations re-entering the speaker enclosure and are not revealed during sweep frequency testing in the anechoic chamber.”

Is this considered not worth treating - or are we lacking appropriate measurement tools to determine rise and fall timing of frequencies across the audible spectrum that contribute to how we experience timbre and localization of sounds in space with stereo reproduction? And how specifically would we address the product designers contention that timing accuracy is critcally important.

Maybe I am missing something important here.

kn

 

[Thomas_A]

The only putative importat measurement here is distortion. Either harmonic or IMD.

 

[Curvature]

“Any artefacts that are common in both channels are perceived to be in the middle and result in a collapsed and two-dimensional phantom image. Managing internal reflections is essential to preserving clarity, precision, and spatial definition. The artefacts are timing variations re-entering the speaker enclosure and are not revealed during sweep frequency testing in the anechoic chamber.”

So this is bullsh**.

Frequency response is mathematically related to impulse response. You can convert from the one to the other.

Big errors show up in both, although the IR much harder to visually interpret.

Here's a good demonstration in this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sed-on-enclosure-thickness-and-bracing.54902/

 

[Curvature]

Cool video.

I have a sealed Arendal Sound 1S sub at home. I can feel nothing with my hand when it's playing (I cannot express enough how disappointed I was when I found out; I equate vibration with power, stupidly).

 

[Thomas_A]

Cool video.

I have a sealed Arendal Sound 1S sub at home. I can feel nothing with my hand when it's playing (I cannot express enough how disappointed I was when I found out; I equate vibration with power, stupidly).

It does not tell much, IMO. Frequencies? Floor type? Hard or soft feet?

 

[Curvature]

It does not tell much, IMO. Frequencies? Floor type? Hard or soft feet?

Just take it as a interesting demo, not a firm proof. 117dB SPL is higher than most people would ever push their system. And yet... the glass does not move (eppur si no muove).

Edit: Inserted link.

 

[Thomas_A]

Just take it as a interesting demo, not a firm proof. 117dB SPL is higher than most people would ever push their system. And yet... the glass does not move (eppur si no muove).

Edit: Inserted link.

I seached a bit but couldn’t find any good pictures but at least other models seem to have rubber feet. Which is as it should.

 

[Curvature]

It does not tell much, IMO. Frequencies? Floor type? Hard or soft feet?

This is the first bit of the video, where the sub is playing, for a little extra context.

 

[Thomas_A]

View attachment 465396
This is the first bit of the video, where the sub is playing, for a little extra context.

So this is the sub playing 38 Hz primary + distortion?

 

[Curvature]

So this is the sub playing 38 Hz primary + distortion?

Seems that way.

 

[Cypherdelic]

Here is what amazon Sylomer product shows as data without any note how to interprete it or pick the best weight option:

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07NL97PMM

I guess 15-30kg is the right one for standspeakers at around 22-23kg.

I use stone-plates which themselves sit on rubber plates, so the stoneplate is decoupled from the stone-ground, thats the most important thing to reduce stress for my neighbors. It works good, before the hole floor was vibrating, now only the stoneplate is vibrating but the floor is no more. So it works

I tried spikes but they didnt work out... Horrible to finetune weightdistribution so that the plate under the spike doesnt rattle, them when you change one the other weights change too and another spikeplate rattles. I hated them.

At the moment i placed them also on small rubberplates on the stoneplate but i ordered those Sylomers.
15euro form 8pcs... Worth trying.


Btw... When the spike feets are not properly working or when i place them straight on the plate without anything a slow highvolumed sweep-test reveals annoying resonances so this is the easiest way to verify if it is a audible problem and if those things works as intendet, theres no need to measure a tiny improvement. You should be able to hear that if it was a problem and if it solved then with it.

 

[Curvature]

Here is what amazon Sylomer product shows as data without any note how to interprete it or pick the best weight option:
View attachment 467676

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07NL97PMM

I guess 15-30kg is the right one for standspeakers at around 22-23kg.

I use stone-plates which themselves sit on rubber plates.
I tried spikes but they didnt work out... Horrible to finetune weightdistribution so that the plate under the spike doesnt rattle, them when you change one the other weights change too and another spikeplate rattles. I hated them.

At the moment i placed them also on small rubberplates on the stoneplate but i ordered those Sylomers.
15euro form 8pcs... Worth trying.

Datasheets here: https://www.getzner.com/en-us/products/sylomer Try the explanatory brochure. The goal is to aim for the light gray area in terms of weight, since speakers represent a dynamic load.

 

[Thomas_A]

Here is what amazon Sylomer product shows as data without any note how to interprete it or pick the best weight option:
View attachment 467676

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07NL97PMM

I guess 15-30kg is the right one for standspeakers at around 22-23kg.

I use stone-plates which themselves sit on rubber plates, so the stoneplate is decounled from the stone-ground, thats the most important thing to reduce stress for my neighbors.

I tried spikes but they didnt work out... Horrible to finetune weightdistribution so that the plate under the spike doesnt rattle, them when you change one the other weights change too and another spikeplate rattles. I hated them.

At the moment i placed them also on small rubberplates on the stoneplate but i ordered those Sylomers.
15euro form 8pcs... Worth trying.


Btw... When the spike feets are not properly working or when i place them straight on the plate without anything a slow highvolumed sweep-test reveals annoying resonances so this is the easiest way to verify if it is a audible problem and if those things works as intendet, theres no need to measure a tiny improvement. You should be able to hear that if it was a problem and if it solved then with it.

I’ve been using cheap sylomer pads for 30 years now. They last.

 

[Cypherdelic]

How should i know what N/mm² means and which one is better for hitting thatnpoint with having exactly 23kg speaker
(I mean i know that equals weight on surface, but i dont know how big these four pads are exactly, and i dont want to calculate it)

They could have calculated that for the set of their sylomerpads easily into kilogram and show numbers that people understand. Why must i do that?

when there is product A for 15-30kg
and product B 10-23kg.
And another product C for 23-60kg

How im supposed to know that? im not a physician... I picked the middle in terms of strength (B)

Why dont they give a note what you pick with a 23kg when there are three products for such.
I cant read those graphs, way to complex to me.

 

[Curvature]

How should i know what N/mm² means and which one is better for hitting thatnpoint with having exactly 23kg speaker
(I mean i know that equals weight on surface, but i dont know how big these four pads are exactly, and i dont want to calculate it)

They xould have calculated tnat for the set of their pads easily into kilogram. Why must i do that?

when there is product A for 15-30kg
and product B 10-23kg.
And another product C for 23-60kg

How im supposed to know that? im not a physician... I picked the middle in terms of strength (B)

Why dont they give a note what you pick with a 23kg when there are three products for such.
I cant read those graphs, way to complex to me.

If too complex, and you aren't willing to learn the math, stop tweaking.

 

[Cypherdelic]

Oh Cmon...

 

[Thomas_A]

Oh Cmon...

if you have 23 kg speaker choose the 15-30 range. It is not very critical unless the speaker has very uneven mass at its corners. There was once customized thicker sylomer pads fron Sonic Design which required measuring the speaker weight at its four corners. But these thinner pads should be fine using the total mass of the speaker.

 

[izeek]

Here is what amazon Sylomer product shows as data without any note how to interprete it or pick the best weight option:
View attachment 467676

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07NL97PMM

I guess 15-30kg is the right one for standspeakers at around 22-23kg.

I use stone-plates which themselves sit on rubber plates, so the stoneplate is decoupled from the stone-ground, thats the most important thing to reduce stress for my neighbors. It works good, before the hole floor was vibrating, now only the stoneplate is vibrating but the floor is no more. So it works

I tried spikes but they didnt work out... Horrible to finetune weightdistribution so that the plate under the spike doesnt rattle, them when you change one the other weights change too and another spikeplate rattles. I hated them.

At the moment i placed them also on small rubberplates on the stoneplate but i ordered those Sylomers.
15euro form 8pcs... Worth trying.


Btw... When the spike feets are not properly working or when i place them straight on the plate without anything a slow highvolumed sweep-test reveals annoying resonances so this is the easiest way to verify if it is a audible problem and if those things works as intendet, theres no need to measure a tiny improvement. You should be able to hear that if it was a problem and if it solved then with it.

making my day reading your solution here. lot of controversy. glad to see someone else with like thinking. and everything has a resonance.

mine is similar. towers naked-footed on a paver with a horsestall mat under it. the subs are on isoacoustics sub stands on a paver. the paver probably resonates, also, but i can't hear it. i could hear it with different woods, mdf. if the rubber isn't dense enough, it can blur the sound. for me. in the lower mids.

i have carpeted wood floor. really has helped with dampening vibration into the floor and walls. improved soundstage in general. no bass thudding.

if you can, find a small enough piece of horsestall mat in place of the rubber. that stuff is seriously dense. way denser than most rubber. better than all the rubber i tried up to that point. when i put it under the paver, it finished the job. the paver dampens and the mat catches strays.

i didnt do any measurements. did you?