IsoAcoustics Isolation Feet - Does it really make positive effect or fancy accessories

[Vhond]

This is what Iso Acoustics is telling about speaker resonance:

Spikes & Isolation: The Art of Speaker Decoupling for Optimal Audio Performance

This contributed article by IsoAcoustics' founder and president is an interesting piece that sums up his vast experience in the field, working with professional audio engineers, loudspeaker designers, and music lovers all over the world. The article explores how speakers physically interact with...

audioxpress.com

 

[Purité Audio]

Manufacturers will say anything, visco-elastic material ( open cell rubber /Sorbathane) is an excellent isolator you just need to decide upon the ‘stack’ height and durometer which depends upon the weight of the speakers.
And it isn’t expensive.
Keith

 

[MattHooper]

FWIW…

Video of “skeptical” audiophile who ends up conducting a blind listening test between Isoacoustic Gaia footers, another isolation product, and spikes, between his stand mounted speakers and his stand. First, he measured a difference with the isoacoustics being used, but couldn’t repeat those results , but still felt he was hearing a difference and so conducted the blind test.

If I understand properly, Mark in the video wore a blindfold and had a helper switch the three different products under the speakers and Mark tried to identify which product was which. He did this five times. And reports that he successfully identified the products in each of the five tests. In the fifth test his helper tried to trick him, by using the same product and not switching to any others, but in that test, Mark reported that he couldn’t hear any difference and was only told afterwards it was the same product.

Not exactly science, but at least he put in some effort:

 

[RickS]

Check this: Speaker Isolation.

Per Terms and Rules, add summary please.

 

[WillBrink]

I don't have a problem believing that isolating some things from vibrational energy is a possible benefit in some circumstances (albeit I'd like to see more objective support for that...), but there's no reason one needs to spend much $ to accomplish it. You have for example 3M silicon feet that come in different sizes:

https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Addicted-Amplifiers-Turntables-Hemisphere/dp/B08FD8TRPD/?th=1

I have put my speakers on top of subs due to space limitations using foam pads between them:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078PQ7TLD/?th=1

Even if say isoacoustics can demonstrate benefits from their product, I'd want to see it compared to the far less costly offerings above. Am I missing something?

 

[knownothing]

There is a new video by Steve Guttenberg’s friend Mark on speaker isolation devices. In the video, Mark uses a microphone to try to distinguish differences between different isolation devices with inconsistent results. He then resorts to a blind ABX test with an interesting control related to speaker position.

I am interested to hear what you all think. I think it is both entertaining and informative with regards to the products and the value of blind ABX testing in your own home with your own gear and a friend.

kn

Report

 

[EasyC]

I used to have two KRK monitors on my desk - the whole desk resonated along with low bass. It's a possibility to put them on stands next to your desk, but I put the IsoAcoustics underneath to try them out. Must say, was much better. Better defined bass. The desk rumbled along before I guess. No before/after measurements, sorry.

Now I've got Genelec 8030C. They have their own rubber feet, which works great as well. Must be something to them, if a brand like Genelec uses these, also on the Ones.

I would say it depends on the surface your speakers are on. The floor matters less, but a big hollow cabinet adds lots of bass - try putting one of those small JBL bluetooth speakers on a stone on the floor or on a cabinet and compare. I'm not an expert, but isn't this just basic physics?

 

[kyuu]

I would say it depends on the surface your speakers are on. The floor matters less, but a big hollow cabinet adds lots of bass - try putting one of those small JBL bluetooth speakers on a stone on the floor or on a cabinet and compare. I'm not an expert, but isn't this just basic physics?

Only if there is a significant amount of energy in the speaker cabinet that is getting transferred to the surface it is sitting on. Since the vast majority of the energy is going out the drivers as sound, normally I wouldn't think it's something to worry about. There may be some rattling if it's a small speaker sitting on a hard surface due to the movement of the bass drover, but you don't need fancy isolation devices to avoid that. Some adhesive rubber bumpers or a bit of foam will do it.

 

[ta240]

With a well constructed speaker, how loud do you have to get for it to vibrate, through contact, the floor and wall audibly?

 

[Mark617]

Per Terms and Rules, add summary please.

As requested.

Ethan Winer conducted several tests to elucidate if there is a beneficial effect of isolation products for loudspeakers due to the mechanical vibrations when playing sound (music, etc.). Winer measured the performance of a Mackie HR624 powered loudspeaker placed on a table that had strong resonances at 298 and 475 Hz when used as stands for a pair of speakers with and without commercial (4) and DYI (2) acoustic isolation products. Measurements for frequency, decay times, and impulse responses were made with REW and and DPA 4090 precision microphone.

Mr. Winer detects and reports some small differences between the various isolation products and no isolation by less than 2 dB’s. He concludes that they differences are mostly due to slight differences (down to ⅛") between speaker and microphone placement although he sought to counter this variable as much as possible.

Ethan Winer: Testing Loudspeaker Isolation Products

 

[Thomas_A]

As requested.

Ethan Winer conducted several tests to elucidate if there is a beneficial effect of isolation products for loudspeakers due to the mechanical vibrations when playing sound (music, etc.). Winer measured the performance of a Mackie HR624 powered loudspeaker placed on a table that had strong resonances at 298 and 475 Hz when used as stands for a pair of speakers with and without commercial (4) and DYI (2) acoustic isolation products. Measurements for frequency, decay times, and impulse responses were made with REW and and DPA 4090 precision microphone.

Mr. Winer detects and reports some small differences between the various isolation products and no isolation by less than 2 dB’s. He concludes that they differences are mostly due to slight differences (down to ⅛") between speaker and microphone placement although he sought to counter this variable as much as possible.

Ethan Winer: Testing Loudspeaker Isolation Products

if there are some effects, it is related to larger surfaces vibrating such as speakers sitting on desks or springy floors. As shown previosuly, it can add higher order distortion products. Isolation with soft feet effectively works in those cases.

 

[MattHooper]

if there are some effects, it is related to larger surfaces vibrating such as speakers sitting on desks or springy floors. As shown previosuly, it can add higher order distortion products. Isolation with soft feet effectively works in those cases.

Yes, some people seem to forget the principal were small vibrations, can be amplified by a bigger surface.

Speaker designer Lawrence Dickie likes to demonstrate this with a teeny wind up music box, playing it first in air where it is quite quiet, and then placing it on various services where the sound becomes greatly amplified.
It doesn’t seem implausible that speakers vibrating even a little bit sitting on a large wooden floor for instance, couldn’t have that vibration amplified.

PSB speaker designer Paul Barton, who is the woo-woo guy and has been designing using the NRC facilities for decades, explained as much in an interview.

As I’ve mentioned, I could feel my speakers vibrating the floor, and vibrations even right through to my chair, which were mitigated by putting strings under the speakers, and certain other materials (though nothing did it quite like the springs).

I’ve seen quite a number of people who said that, aside from any effect on the sound, the Isoacoustics footers clearly solved some vibration issues they had with gear such as subwoofers (cutting down transferred to the floor, or speaker vibration, causing rattling, etc.)

 

[olds1959special]

I just got ISO Acoustic ISO 155 stands for my desktop setup. It made a HUGE difference. I was using foam before but the bass was still transferring to the desk and creating unwelcome resonances. After installing them I was setting up my subwoofer again and testing pink noise with my RTA app. To my surprise a ton of bass frequencies were missing that were there before. I was able to turn up the crossover setting of my subwoofer to compensate and the sound is awesome now.

 

[knownothing]

With a well constructed speaker, how loud do you have to get for it to vibrate, through contact, the floor and wall audibly?

That sounds like a prompt for an experiment.

 

[MattHooper]

With a well constructed speaker, how loud do you have to get for it to vibrate, through contact, the floor and wall audibly?

Based on what speaker designer Paul Barton of PSB has said, and my own experience, I don’t think a speaker necessarily has to vibrate audibly in order to change the perception of the sound.

As Barton puts it, especially if the speaker is sitting on a wood floor, it’s possible for the speaker, even if it’s vibrating suddenly for that vibration to be amplified by the floor, and then it travels through your feet or the chair you’re sitting on. But they arrive at slightly different times - the sound of vibrations are going travel, faster through a solid den through air, so the vibrations arrive and are felt first, and then the airborne sound vibrations arrive on top of that. And that can potentially change the perception of the sound.

In my case, I have what I believe are well design speakers (I was using Thiel 2.7 speakers of the time). I didn’t feel any extra amount of vibration on the Cabinet when it was playing loud music, but I could feel the floor vibrating around the speaker, and I could feel the ottoman that I had my legs on and my sofa vibrating with the louder music.

I then isolated my speakers from the floor using springs, and that completely stopped by being able to feel vibrations on the floor around the speakers or through my chair.

And it seemed to change my experience of the sound: I found the sound presentation to see more solid, dense and palpable when the speakers were connected to the floor.

FWIW….

 

[amirm]

Haven't watched the video but the biggest difference from these footers comes from them modifying the height/acoustic center of the speaker. At shows, I hear the difference but if I lower my ear height, it goes away.

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes, some people seem to forget the principal were small vibrations, can be amplified by a bigger surface.

Speaker designer Lawrence Dickie likes to demonstrate this with a teeny wind up music box, playing it first in air where it is quite quiet, and then placing it on various services where the sound becomes greatly amplified.
It doesn’t seem implausible that speakers vibrating even a little bit sitting on a large wooden floor for instance, couldn’t have that vibration amplified.

PSB speaker designer Paul Barton, who is the woo-woo guy and has been designing using the NRC facilities for decades, explained as much in an interview.

As I’ve mentioned, I could feel my speakers vibrating the floor, and vibrations even right through to my chair, which were mitigated by putting strings under the speakers, and certain other materials (though nothing did it quite like the springs).

I’ve seen quite a number of people who said that, aside from any effect on the sound, the Isoacoustics footers clearly solved some vibration issues they had with gear such as subwoofers (cutting down transferred to the floor, or speaker vibration, causing rattling, etc.)

That’s one of the reasons speakers have enclosures, placing a naked driver on a table…
Keith

 

[knownothing]

Haven't watched the video but the biggest difference from these footers comes from them modifying the height/acoustic center of the speaker. At shows, I hear the difference but if I lower my ear height, it goes away.

I agree that speaker height/ear height relationship is critical, and especially critical for some tweeters compared with others, for folded AMT drivers especially. That said, lower midrange and bass should be less susceptible to this phenomenon, and treble is very unlikely to interact with floors, walls and ceilings via direct coupling. Reflections, yes, coupling, not so much.

In the blind test described in the video, the tester did check the effect of slight variations in the lateral position of the speaker on the stand to check the impact on the test subject’s perception, noting some uncertainty in the tester’s ability to exactly reposition the speakers on the stand. This had no effect on the subjects perception of the sound quality, whereas different isolation devices did have an observed effect.

I know you’re super busy with your own review work, but this video is worth watching if you enjoy clever production and dry wit, regardless of content. My opinion only.

kn

 

[knownothing]

Haven't watched the video but the biggest difference from these footers comes from them modifying the height/acoustic center of the speaker. At shows, I hear the difference but if I lower my ear height, it goes away.

I might also add that the tests in the video were not between isolation devices and no isolation devices (except for the repositioning test which was completed with no isolation devices at all), but rather only between isolation devices. In each use case tested, the speakers were elevated above the stand to some degree, so the only height difference being that between one isolation device versus another, and presumably much smaller than the difference between an added device and no device. Not zero difference, but relatively small, ie on the order of a few mm.

 

[Curvature]

vibrations arrive and are felt first, and then the airborne sound vibrations arrive on top of that

Vibrotactile sensation thresholds are very high: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...bwoofer-comparison.20494/page-60#post-2306475

It's unlikely a speaker will play loud enough to feel it.