ISO advice playing DSD 512 or 256

[Deleted member 91501]

Greetings I I am just getting started in trying out a DSD playback system and seeking advice or if anyone knows other forums dedicated to the subject. I have a NAD M10 which does not support DSD. I was planning on buying DSD music from NativeDSD and putting the files on a 1tb thumb drive. I am looking at purchasing a IFI Neo stream streamer. The plan is to insert the thumb drive into the IFI which should convert the files to analog then use RCA's into the NAD amp. My amp has BlueOS and I do not have Roon. Am I on the right track ? Would I then use BlueOS to see the files and play them ? I am very new to this so any advice is welcome ! Thanks in advance !

Richard

 

[staticV3]

The NAD M10 will convert the RCA analog input back to 44.1/48kHz PCM internally, so what's the point in buying a DSD converter.

More effective and economical would be to convert the DSD tracks to PCM on your computer, then you can play those natively on the NAD.

DSD's entire magic is in the mastering anyway, so nothing is lost when converting to PCM.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi, and welcome?

I don't like replying to a thread without trying to give an answer to the actual question, but in this case I'd have to ask why you are chasing DSD? It's fair enough to experiment if you have the kit but there is no reason - from a sound quality point of view - to go to these lengths.

Just use the NAD as is, stream or buy PCM files and enjoy the music

 

[Deleted member 91501]

"The NAD M10 will convert the RCA analog input back to 44.1/48kHz PCM internally, "R
I did not know that. I thought once it is analog it was like a phono or tape signal. So in this case I would need an amp that supports DSD ?

 

[Deleted member 91501]

Also I am of the understandoing that computers add noise when using them as a player. As opposed to using a dedicated streamer..... still learning.

 

[Deleted member 91501]

Hi, and welcome?

I don't like replying to a thread without trying to give an answer to the actual question, but in this case I'd have to ask why you are chasing DSD? It's fair enough to experiment if you have the kit but there is no reason - from a sound quality point of view - to go to these lengths.

Just use the NAD as is, stream or buy PCM files and enjoy the music

Thank you . Yes I am new here so thanks for the welcome. Why am I chasing DSD ? Im curious. If I could go to a stereo shop and listen to it then I could make an evaluation. I can't becuase its a niche thing. I know the problems with DSD: filters, the music is not readily available, audio companies like Schitt Audio gave up on it becuase they looked at the failures of new formats introduced in the past and know the general public is not interested. SACD's is a good example. On paper they are better than CD's but most people are happy with MP3 and Spotify. This is really a whole different thread . I am seeking help to jump through these hoops as a challenge. Perhaps a better question would be " Dopes anyone know where I could hear a DSD512 set up". I am willing to buy a DAC and a thumb drive but if I have to buy a new amp then that is where I will give up. Thanks for your time...

 

[Drengur]

Also I am of the understandoing that computers add noise....

The short answer is: not really. The long answer is something along the lines of the conversion being done digitally. If computers would add noise to digital information there would be no computers and no digital information. Audiophiles tend to project their know-how regarding analogue playback systems to CDs and digital media which has no place in reality.

 

[voodooless]

The NAD M10 will convert the RCA analog input back to 44.1/48kHz PCM internally, so what's the point in buying a DSD converter.

To be fair, the along this process, there are multiple times conversion to a 1-bit stream and back, to eventually end up as PWM for the amp Such is the nature of delta sigma (and sigma delta) and Class D amps.

Dopes anyone know where I could hear a DSD512 set up

Right now, at your home. It will sound exactly the same. There is no difference. The DSD experience is a straw man build by marketing departments.

If you want to improve your sound, measure your room, try to understand what is going on and go play with Dirac.

 

[staticV3]

So in this case I would need an amp that supports DSD ?

For what purpose?

Pursuing an all-native DSD playback chain is a fool's errand.

All that awaits you after spending your time, effort, and money is the same sound that you'd already achieved using PCM.

If it's the specific master stored within that DSD container which interests you, just export it as PCM and you gain storage efficiency and the flexibility of frequency response correction at no cost to sound quality.

Also I am of the understandoing that computers add noise....

Converting DSD to PCM on your computer does not add noise to the music. Not at all.

 

[Deleted member 91501]

For what purpose?

Pursuing an all-native DSD playback chain is a fool's errand.

All that awaits you after spending your time, effort, and money is the same sound that you'd already achieved using PCM.

If it's the specific master stored within that DSD container which interests you, just export it as PCM and you gain storage efficiency and the flexibility of frequency response correction at no cost to sound quality.


Converting DSD to PCM on your computer does not add noise to the music. Not at all.

Understood. I was suggesting that using the computer as a player might add noise. Of course computers are used every where in mastering etc. "My computer" and all its connects might add noise. Note that I have no practical experience by saying this; its what I've read. I came here to learn so all advice/ opinions/rants are appreciated.

 

[Deleted member 91501]

For what purpose?

Pursuing an all-native DSD playback chain is a fool's errand.

All that awaits you after spending your time, effort, and money is the same sound that you'd already achieved using PCM.

If it's the specific master stored within that DSD container which interests you, just export it as PCM and you gain storage efficiency and the flexibility of frequency response correction at no cost to sound quality.


Converting DSD to PCM on your computer does not add noise to the music. Not at all.

Got it.

 

[JeremyFife]

Understood. I was suggesting that using the computer as a player might add noise. Of course computers are used every where in mastering etc. "My computer" and all its connects might add noise. Note that I have no practical experience by saying this; its what I've read. I came here to learn so all advice/ opinions/rants are appreciated.

This is a great place to learn - stick with it!

 

[Deleted member 91501]

Thank you

 

[JeremyFife]

For what purpose?

Pursuing an all-native DSD playback chain is a fool's errand.

All that awaits you after spending your time, effort, and money is the same sound that you'd already achieved using PCM.

If it's the specific master stored within that DSD container which interests you, just export it as PCM and you gain storage efficiency and the flexibility of frequency response correction at no cost to sound quality.


Converting DSD to PCM on your computer does not add noise to the music. Not at all.

The really tricky part is finding/knowing what the good masters are (and whether 'good' translates into audibly different). Used to really bug me but I'm coming to terms with the idea that most of the stuff I like is probably mastered/recorded well enough anyway and I wont notice minor differences. I used to chase specific releases (vinyl, but then CD too), I've given that up now.

'Mainstream' music does seem to be compressed to death (downmixed from surround sound released seem better?) but that's different

@staticV3 any thoughts on how to find those good masters, or if it really matters?

 

[Sokel]

Got it.

If you're curious and you can take my word for it, I have such a chain, I can play native DSD512 all the way.
The difference with PCM? Zero if done the right way.

The whole DSD thing is about its nice recordings.

 

[Deleted member 91501]

Got it. I love music. I love the recording "Jazz at the Pawnshop". I love it in vinyl and I love it in streaming. If you have this in DSD is it better than other players ?

 

[voodooless]

Got it. I love music. I love the recording "Jazz at the Pawnshop". I love it in vinyl and I love it in streaming. If you have this in DSD is it better than other players ?

I really doubt the DSD version would be any better. It seems to be already a really good mastered record, even in 1984:

Album list - Dynamic Range DB

Also note:

As you can see here, DSD256 and 512 are generated by software, most likely from DXD or 192kHz PCM (no point in using a lower rate DSD), so the source is PCM

And also note:

The SNR of that tape recorder is only 75dB, crosstalk is 70dB and they did not even bother with a distortion spec in the datasheet. And you want to worry about noise from your PC? Coincidentally, this recorder was also used during the performance. All releases since have been derived from (copies of) this source.

 

[Deleted member 91501]

Amazing data. Which one do you play most often and why ? I just love finding amazing recordings. Thank you so much !

 

[Mnyb]

Note that DXD is PCM , the marketing people wants this to be obfuscated

 

[staticV3]

@staticV3 any thoughts on how to find those good masters

I only know https://magicvinyldigital.net/