Is Wiim Amp Ultra upgrade over Yamaha AS701?

[dankandi]

Hello audiophiles, i am using Yamaha AS701 for many years, and looking for something smaller and modern.

This is review of AS801 with similar audio circuit to AS701, with measurements.

Yamaha A-S801 Integrated Amplifier Review

The Yamaha A-S801 is an honestly rated 100 watt/ch integrated amplifier with a built in high resolution USB-B DAC to power a serious dedicated two-channel or upscale PC system with pristine fidelity.

www.audioholics.com

I tried one highly rated Chinese Class D amp, the O-NOORUS D3 PRO, with SINAD 90. But it was quite disappointing on 48V 5A GAN power supply.
It sounded more bassy excited but lacks the wide sound stage of AS701. I do not have measuring equipment but i played D3 Pro and AS701 up to their max tolerable volume, and i feel AS701 have more room left to go louder.

It is catch-22 AS701 gets abit fatiguing over time, i think the PSU cannot take the long play time stress.

But the D3 Pro is too dark.

Is Wiim Amp Ultra with dual TPA3255 gives me a nice middle ground? Thank you!

This is a teardown photo i found of WAU and D3 Pro

 

[voodooless]

It sounded more bassy excited but lacks the wide sound stage of AS701.

And you did a controlled test where you at least did some decent level matching with a DMM? If not any subjective comparison is extremely unreliable.

I do not have measuring equipment but i played D3 Pro and AS701 up to their max tolerable volume, and i feel AS701 have more room left to go louder.

I don’t think there will be much difference between the two in terms of maxSPL. Maybe the Yamaha has a more gentle clipping behavior.

Is Wiim Amp Ultra with dual TPA3255 gives me a nice middle ground? Thank you!

At least it has room correction. Sound quality wise that has much more potential.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

i played D3 Pro and AS701 up to their max tolerable volume, and i feel AS701 have more room left to go louder.

All you have done is compared the gain.

 

[DVinylfan]

i am using Yamaha AS701 for many years

701 gets abit fatiguing over time

looking for something smaller and modern.

It sounds like you're wanting to upgrade your old amplifier and willing to spend the €600 or so for a Wiim Amp Ultra which, to my knowledge has not been reviewed yet here but is well-liked by its owners and fits your criteria of "smaller and modern".
If you're not inclined to do rigorous tests to determine which amplifier is objectively and audibly more transparent, but rather wishing to replace the amplifier you have with one that you like, why not purchase the Wiim amp, perhaps from a provider with a generous returns policy, and see if you like it?
Don't forget to resell/recycle your old amp responsibly

 

[dankandi]

And you did a controlled test where you at least did some decent level matching with a DMM? If not any subjective comparison is extremely unreliable.

I don’t think there will be much difference between the two in terms of maxSPL. Maybe the Yamaha has a more gentle clipping behavior.


At least it has room correction. Sound quality wise that has much more potential.

All you have done is compared the gain.

unfortunately i do not have the equipment, i can only do an average consumer buy and plug in the same set up and play test. And i played the same music to the loudness where my ears say 'nope'.

the D3 Pro was the first Class D TPA amp i heard, and it comes with AKM DAC, so i am wondering if that is how the sound signature of Class D is like, i can clearly hear the loss of soundstage, in exchange for more bass.

 

[dankandi]

It sounds like you're wanting to upgrade your old amplifier and willing to spend the €600 or so for a Wiim Amp Ultra which, to my knowledge has not been reviewed yet here but is well-liked by its owners and fits your criteria of "smaller and modern".
If you're not inclined to do rigorous tests to determine which amplifier is objectively and audibly more transparent, but rather wishing to replace the amplifier you have with one that you like, why not purchase the Wiim amp, perhaps from a provider with a generous returns policy, and see if you like it?
Don't forget to resell/recycle your old amp responsibly

Sadly a 25% restocking fee means not try-o, hence i am looking around for users' feedback and those with experience of decoding the sound measurements.

I was thinking of the improved DAC, the room correction and better sub control of WAU may help out? Both are rated for 100Wx2x8ohm, so they should amplify the same?

I am not thinking of adding WU DAC, just feels like removing the big Yamaha, but if WAU Class D amp, do not drive my first gen LS50 with better warmth and controls, then this attempt is not smart one.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

unfortunately i do not have the equipment, i can only do an average consumer buy and plug in the same set up and play test. And i played the same music to the loudness where my ears say 'nope'.

Then you simply know nothing about which is better or worse.

 

[Roland68]

unfortunately i do not have the equipment, i can only do an average consumer buy and plug in the same set up and play test. And i played the same music to the loudness where my ears say 'nope'.

the D3 Pro was the first Class D TPA amp i heard, and it comes with AKM DAC, so i am wondering if that is how the sound signature of Class D is like, i can clearly hear the loss of soundstage, in exchange for more bass.

What you did isn't a fair comparison at all and proves absolutely nothing.

You should make a comparison at normal volume, with absolutely identical levels, which can only be set with a multimeter.
A multimeter only costs €10-20 on AliExpress these days and is much cheaper than your wasted time.

The Yamaha A-S701 is a well-designed amplifier with a high output of over 200 watts peak power at 4 ohms.
A comparable amplifier would be the 3E Audio A7 with a 48V/10A power supply.

If you're looking for a remote-controlled device with digital inputs and Bluetooth, you could look into a Sabaj A30a or SMSL VMV A2 (identical devices), but it might be difficult to find one now.

 

[voodooless]

the D3 Pro was the first Class D TPA amp i heard, and it comes with AKM DAC, so i am wondering if that is how the sound signature of Class D is like, i can clearly hear the loss of soundstage, in exchange for more bass.

Properly designed DACs and amps like these have no sound signature. Sound stage happens in your mind. Amps and DAC do not influence this. Stop drinking the audiophile cool aid. Also, listening to amps at the edges of their performance envelope is not a good idea. It says nothing about sound quality at normal listening levels and only damages your ears and speakers.

I was thinking of the improved DAC,

Won't make a diffrence

the room correction

Will make a massive difference!

and better sub control

Will make a significant difference, especially in combination with room correction

of WAU may help out? Both are rated for 100Wx2x8ohm, so they should amplify the same?

I don't think it will make a big difference, and plenty for the LS50. I ran them with way less power without issues, but it will depend a bit on your environment. In a big room, they may be too small anyway. If you run these regularly very loud, I think you bought the wrong speakers...

 

[Roland68]

I am not thinking of adding WU DAC, just feels like removing the big Yamaha, but if WAU Class D amp, do not drive my first gen LS50 with better warmth and controls, then this attempt is not smart one.

And that's where most people's thinking is fundamentally flawed.
You're listening to some internet nonsense that simply doesn't exist with well-designed equipment and can't exist.

With a song, you have an original data set, whether analog or digital, which the equipment and speakers must reproduce exactly as it is.

If a device has a warmer sound than the original recording of the music, then that's only possible if the device alters the original music material. Such a device can only be described as defective.

 

[dankandi]

I am as much a skeptic of audiophile snakeoil. but the moment i plugged and played the Class D amp, i totally noticed the loss of sound stage. It is like the AS701 project the sound from each LS50 160° L/R, the D3 Pro is only able to do 120° L/R.

Again this is plug and play, with no adjustment, i tried to compensate later with turning the volume, the AS701 just goes wider.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

I am as much a skeptic of audiophile snakeoil. but the moment i plugged and played the Class D amp, i totally noticed the loss of sound stage. It is like the AS701 project the sound from each LS50 160° L/R, the D3 Pro is only able to do 120° L/R.

Again this is plug and play, with no adjustment, i tried to compensate later with turning the volume, the AS701 just goes wider.

Try it again but properly level match this time (and ideally without knowing which amp is playing)

I am astounded every time I do this. Even when I know which device is playing, level matching makes the "massive" differences almost non-existent

 

[voodooless]

level matching makes the "massive" differences almost non-existent

Yes:

Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi, your Yamaha is a nice amp.
There are good reasons to change; if you need *much* more power (you don't), you need a new feature (you don't) or aesthetics - which you do want to change.
You won't get a change in sound quality though, so bear that in mind. Feel free to read more widely in the forum to understand why we say that.

The WiiM Amp Ultra will be a sensible replacement, it's not been reviewed here yet but there have been good objective reviews which you can find on the WiiM forums.
It also offers DSP/Room Correction/PEQ which can make a big improvement for you

 

[Roland68]

I am as much a skeptic of audiophile snakeoil. but the moment i plugged and played the Class D amp, i totally noticed the loss of sound stage. It is like the AS701 project the sound from each LS50 160° L/R, the D3 Pro is only able to do 120° L/R.

Again this is plug and play, with no adjustment, i tried to compensate later with turning the volume, the AS701 just goes wider.

Again, without a multimeter, it's nothing but a waste of time.
With a multimeter, it's very easy, and there's plenty of help here in the forum on how to do it.

I wouldn't use the O-NOORUS amplifier as a benchmark. I haven't seen any reliable measurements for it. We once included an O-NOORUS amplifier in our own blind test, but we stopped immediately after listening to it for the first time. That was two or three years ago, though, and I don't remember which model it was.
Also, your Yamaha AS701 has more power than your O-NOORUS amplifier with 48V/5A, especially in the bass range.

 

[dankandi]

Again, without a multimeter, it's nothing but a waste of time.
With a multimeter, it's very easy, and there's plenty of help here in the forum on how to do it.

I wouldn't use the O-NOORUS amplifier as a benchmark. I haven't seen any reliable measurements for it. We once included an O-NOORUS amplifier in our own blind test, but we stopped immediately after listening to it for the first time. That was two or three years ago, though, and I don't remember which model it was.
Also, your Yamaha AS701 has more power than your O-NOORUS amplifier with 48V/5A, especially in the bass range.

Any idea what WAU power supply is rated at?

D3 Pro 48x5 = 240W, peak ?
AS701 = nominal 270W, peak 580W

 

[Bland_username42069]

I’d rather have the Yamaha myself. You can always plug a wiim mini in the back for room correction streaming.

 

[Mort]

I am as much a skeptic of audiophile snakeoil.

You have another step in your journey, which is to accept you are hearing things that aren't there. Trust your measurements.

 

[Roland68]

Any idea what WAU power supply is rated at?

D3 Pro 48x5 = 240W, peak ?
AS701 = nominal 270W, peak 580W

You can't calculate it like that, especially with Class D amplifiers, because the components used play a significant role in the achievable output power. You can disregard the specifications in the datasheets. The tests on ASR clearly demonstrate how different the output power of TPA3255-based amplifiers can be, despite having the same power supply. And they are usually far from the datasheet specifications.

The D3 PRO will probably be somewhere around 80-120 watts.
TPA3255 amplifiers like the 3E A7, PA7, etc., are significantly more advanced and more than worth the extra cost.

No one can comment on the WAU power supply except WiiM, since they integrate their own power supply directly onto the circuit board.
A future test will hopefully reveal the amplifier's power output and how accurate the measurements are.

 

[Mr_RGB]

I have a couple of Yamaha R-S700 receivers that I use both as receivers but also as Preamps since they have main/pre jumpers (and trigger out). I believe the amp section is essentially the same as the A-S701. My current basement setup is using an R-S700 as a preamp connected to 3 Fosi ZA3’s (in stereo mode) driving three pairs of speakers NS-1000Ms, ADS L800/2s, and ADS L630s. I normally only turn on one ZA3 at a time unless I want to shake the house. The ZA3s are connected to 48V 10A Mean Well power supplies.

I can say that the built in amp in the R-S700 as well as the TPA3255 based ZA3s all sound really clear with tight base. I can drive any of these speakers as loud as my small basement and my ears feel comfortable with. I can also say that the preamp section of the R-S700 is fantastic (I really like the variable loudness), and I’m sure the A-S701 is of equal quality.

The bottom lime of all this is to say that in my experience the TPA3255 based amplifiers with the proper power supplies CAN sound as good as the A-S701 amplifier and provide similar power and dynamics. I don’t think they sound better or play louder in my testing than the Yamaha 100wpc amps. Since I don’t know the power supply specs on the Wiim Ultra Amp (doubt it is 48V 10A) I doubt it will play as loud as you’re a-S701. Whether that is loud enough for you is up to you and your speakers etc…

My living room system is a Yamaha R-N602 with a WiiM Pro AirPlay 2 Receiver attached (amongst others).

You could always order from Amazon, try it out and return it if it doesn’t meet your needs.