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Is Vinyl Better Than It Used to Be?

watchnerd

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Warning: This post is short on actual data, merely observations and hypothesis.

Full Disclosure: I enjoy both digital and vinyl. I don't think vinyl is objectively superior to digital, but I do like it and find it fun, both to listen to and collect. Also, as my phono stage is DSP-based (Devialet Expert), I'm not an analog purist by any means, so any comments below are likely to be heresy to analog purists who eschew digitally remastered LPs and, god forbid, a digital phono stage.

So here is my opening observation:

On my modern reissues, almost always remastered from the original recording, on "audiophile grade" 180-200gm pressings, most of the bad parts of vinyl are drastically diminished:

Groove noise (except in the run-in and lead-out) is low, and unnoticeable when music is playing.

Pops and ticks are rare. Maybe 1-3 per album side.

Inner groove distortion still exists, but much less than it used to be....there seems to be a trend towards bigger lead-out grooves / more distance from the label, which might help.

Bass and high reproduction, as well as stereo separation, is usually noticeably better than on older pressings. I don't know if this is just better remastering, or if modern digital-based cutting heads are just much much better.

Contrasting this with old records:

Leaving aside old, worn and dirty records, I have a few unplayed, pristine (bought in shrink wrap) records from the 1960s and 1970s. Not only do they tend to be less flat, but all the bad parts of vinyl are much more present: higher groove noise, more ticks and pops, easier to scratch, weaker highs and lows.

So what's going on here?

Is this simply an artifact of producing a product to a price point, and an audiophile one is higher, leading to a better product?

Or have there been so many advances in manufacturing, material science, and mastering since the 1960s and 1970s, that today's vinyl is universally better, regardless of the price point?

Or something else entirely?
 

RayDunzl

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Or have there been so many advances in manufacturing, material science, and mastering since the 1960s and 1970s, that today's vinyl is universally better, regardless of the price point?

Fewer records are being produced now than then, so, maybe a little more care.

Materials, there certainly could have been some progress. I seem to remember a crisis about recycled vinyl long ago. Maybe there's plenty of quality virgin vinyl now.

The mechanics seem to be much the same, I've read about refurbished lathes and presses as they came back out of the junkpile.
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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Fewer records are being produced now than then, so, maybe a little more care.

Materials, there certainly could have been some progress. I seem to remember a crisis about recycled vinyl long ago. Maybe there's plenty of quality virgin vinyl now.

The mechanics seem to be much the same, I've read about refurbished lathes and presses as they came back out of the junkpile.

Running with the 'more care' hypothesis:

Vinyl has switched from the default mass market distribution mechanism to a niche premium product, where consumers are likely to reject / return / complain a defective product (+internet exposure).

Contrast that with late-game old school vinyl, when the alternatives were...8 track? cassette?

Using an inflation calculator:

2019: $35 = 1970: $5.50

$4.99 was a popular retail price in 1970, but that was an inferior product to what you get for $35 today (typically 180-200gm vinyl).
 
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solderdude

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Mass market vs niche.

Also consider much more pressings were quickly made from one stamper.
Materials may be better now as well.
Different masters perhaps.
Pressings come from digital sources.
 

Soniclife

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Maybe the vinyl ages even if not played. I don't really recognise what you are saying, but I don't buy vinyl often now. I was bought some records for my birthday last weekend, not played them yet, will report if anything interesting is found. Recent releases of new music.
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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Maybe the vinyl ages even if not played. I don't really recognise what you are saying, but I don't buy vinyl often now. I was bought some records for my birthday last weekend, not played them yet, will report if anything interesting is found. Recent releases of new music.

I read somewhere that some of the cheaper mixes (chemically, not musically) of recycled vinyl used back in the day can out-gas over decades.
 

FooYatChong

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The first vinyl long-playing record was launched in 1930, the 30cm flexible plastic discs were used for DJ copies as they shipped well and had superior broadcast sound, but didn’t prove popular with the general public. As shellac became harder to source throughout the war effort, record companies began to move away from it. In 1948 Columbia Records started selling Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) long playing records, or LPs, which had a quieter surface, stored more music and were far less brittle than shellac discs.

Following the tradition of rivalry and secrecy, big record labels introduced their own heavy PVC and styrene formulas with different finishes. MGM had Metrolite, Mercury Records – Merco Plastic, Decca Records - Deccalite and Regent – Sav-O-Flex. All boasted the claim ‘Unbreakable Under Normal Use’.

PVC remains popular today, the crystalline structure means its strong enough to support a groove and withstand the needle without damage.

These days compositions optimised for thick, heavy records with deep grooves are preferred as they give a better-quality sound. With the advances in plastic composition since the heyday of vinyl, we’re sure that the best is yet to come.

https://www.coda-plastics.co.uk/blog/a-history-of-vinyl-the-plastic-of-pop
 

sergeauckland

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One issue that I would like more information about, is the state of cutting lathes. My understanding is that all the cutting lathes currently being used are effectively restored vintage machines. If anyone's making a fully professional lathe these days I don't know about it. There seem to be a few 'desktop' lathes being made, but nothing of the quality of the Neumann or Scully lathes of old. Are these modern lathes being used to cut current releases or are they all using Neumanns and Scullys?

This makes me wonder just how good a restored / repaired lathe actually is for wow and flutter and rumble. Pressing may be better, as the stampers get changed regularly, and a press is a simple device compared with a lathe and the chemistry of making stampers is well understood, but the lathes themselves, and the cutter heads particularly, all seem to be old. Anyone know?

S.
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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One issue that I would like more information about, is the state of cutting lathes. My understanding is that all the cutting lathes currently being used are effectively restored vintage machines. If anyone's making a fully professional lathe these days I don't know about it. There seem to be a few 'desktop' lathes being made, but nothing of the quality of the Neumann or Scully lathes of old. Are these modern lathes being used to cut current releases or are they all using Neumanns and Scullys?

This makes me wonder just how good a restored / repaired lathe actually is for wow and flutter and rumble. Pressing may be better, as the stampers get changed regularly, and a press is a simple device compared with a lathe and the chemistry of making stampers is well understood, but the lathes themselves, and the cutter heads particularly, all seem to be old. Anyone know?

S.

I've heard the lathes are restored vintage machines, but many are now software controlled, which apparently massively helps optimizing the complex trade-offs involved in sonic optimization vs time.
 

Frank Dernie

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Running with the 'more care' hypothesis:

Vinyl has switched from the default mass market distribution mechanism to a niche premium product, where consumers are likely to reject / return / complain a defective product (+internet exposure).

Contrast that with late-game old school vinyl, when the alternatives were...8 track? cassette?

Using an inflation calculator:

2019: $35 = 1970: $5.50

$4.99 was a popular retail price in 1970, but that was an inferior product to what you get for $35 today (typically 180-200gm vinyl).
LPs were £1.50 in the record shops in London in 1970. I have some marked 7/6 bought in sales which is old money. £0.375 today.
I wouldn't say new LPs had clicks and pops back then - I used to buy one a week out of my income of £8.50 a week.
 

LTig

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Maybe the vinyl ages even if not played. .
I don't think so. I have vinyl disks from the 70s and 80s which were produced in high quality and they still sound very good, e.g. Dire Straits Brothers in arms and Love over Gold or Prokofieff Lieutenant Kijé Suite with Claudio Abbado and the CSO (DG 2530 967, 1978). I've played them not often but still do play them.

Brothers in Arms is excellent in dynamics and signal to noise, the vinyl must be very pure. Its one of those disks which is similar in SQ as the CD (first release from 1986 I think, in original dynamic, not the compressed versions which came later), played on a Linn LP12/Lingo(old)/Ekos(old)/VdH MC1 Special via my DIY MC phono pre (using AD797 and LME49710).

Of course there are lots of vinyl disks which are much worse.
 

LTig

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[..]
So here is my opening observation:

On my modern reissues, almost always remastered from the original recording, on "audiophile grade" 180-200gm pressings, most of the bad parts of vinyl are drastically diminished:

Groove noise (except in the run-in and lead-out) is low, and unnoticeable when music is playing.
This is just a measure of how pure the raw vinyl is. Recycled vinyl is (was?) much worse because it contains tiny particles of dirt.
Pops and ticks are rare. Maybe 1-3 per album side.
Probably a measure of how good the vinyl i,s but also how clean the production is. Older disks with accumulated dirt can be cleaned though.

On the other hand an otherwise good set of 180 gram pressings I had bought recently was nearly ruined because of bad packing. The disks were in raw carton bags and the movement during the transport both scratched the disks and loosened many small paper particles which cluttered the disks.
Inner groove distortion still exists, but much less than it used to be....there seems to be a trend towards bigger lead-out grooves / more distance from the label, which might help.
Yep. I've seen new releases with 3 sides were the original was only 2. And you can make it louder as well which helps in S/N.
Bass and high reproduction, as well as stereo separation, is usually noticeably better than on older pressings. I don't know if this is just better remastering, or if modern digital-based cutting heads are just much much better.
I think it's the remastering. I have an Behringer Ultrafex Pro which I can use to lift deep bass and highs and also increase stereo width. With sensible settings an old vinyl disk can sound much better.
Contrasting this with old records:

Leaving aside old, worn and dirty records, I have a few unplayed, pristine (bought in shrink wrap) records from the 1960s and 1970s. Not only do they tend to be less flat, but all the bad parts of vinyl are much more present: higher groove noise, more ticks and pops, easier to scratch, weaker highs and lows.

So what's going on here?

Is this simply an artifact of producing a product to a price point, and an audiophile one is higher, leading to a better product?

Or have there been so many advances in manufacturing, material science, and mastering since the 1960s and 1970s, that today's vinyl is universally better, regardless of the price point?

Or something else entirely?
All of them together probably.

But not all releases do really sound better. I have Friday Night in San Fransisco by Al Di Meola, John McLoghlin and Paco de Lucia, first release. A few years ago I heard a 180 gram rerelease on a high end system and I did not like it. The sound was very analytical and resolving, but it lacked the smoothness of the original. Maybe this is just a matter of taste and myself being used to the sound of the original.
 
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