Is transient response the most important thing for the perceived audio quality in a system ?

[Tangband]

This was the most stupid argument for using Yamaha ns10 I have ever heard. This statements are responsible for the ” circle of confusion ”.

 

[audiofooled]

This was the most stupid argument for using Yamaha ns10 I have ever heard. This statements are responsible for the ” circle of confusion ”.

You may say that. But, just by having ns10's along many, many other tools and clearly some knowledge at hand does not imply this man should keep them hidden in the closet. In his other videos he demonstrates how manipulating numerous plugins affects the sound of the mix and some of other relevant topics he approaches with a sense of humor.

To me at least it is valuable to hear how much harmonic distortion, clipping, brick wall limiting is already upstream in the signal before it even reaches our beloved systems. Circle of confusion is there, no doubt about it. But David Mellor at least points out that better cables cannot fix it.

 

[Tangband]

You may say that. But, just by having ns10's along many, many other tools and clearly some knowledge at hand does not imply this man should keep them hidden in the closet. In his other videos he demonstrates how manipulating numerous plugins affects the sound of the mix and some of other relevant topics he approaches with a sense of humor.

To me at least it is valuable to hear how much harmonic distortion, clipping, brick wall limiting is already upstream in the signal before it even reaches our beloved systems. Circle of confusion is there, no doubt about it. But David Mellor at least points out that better cables cannot fix it.

But better studiomonitors would surely make it better

 

[audiofooled]

But better studiomonitors would surely make it better

Yes they possibly would if the final "polishing" done by mastering engineer wouldn't be affected by the label to sound like "that".

 

[Tangband]

Yes they possibly would if the final "polishing" done by mastering engineer wouldn't be affected by the label to sound like "that".

This brings out a feeling in me that says - mastering engineers are maybe not needed at all ? They destroy the music with loads of compression and they obviously dont care about soundquality, using very inferior loudspeakers when mastering. Have none of them read Dr. Tooles/Olives research ? They should, just for the case of education.

 

[audiofooled]

This brings out a feeling in me that says - mastering engineers are maybe not needed at all ? They destroy the music with loads of compression and they obviously dont care about soundquality, using very inferior loudspeakers when mastering. Have none of them read Dr. Tooles/Olives research ? They should, just for the case of education.

Listen to this @240p! Does it sound bad? Transients?

 

[Thomas_A]

You need to do a couple of years with experimenting with digital crossovers ( as I have done ) to see If your statement is true . It isnt, not in all cases.

As you may know I have played around with all-pass (including flipping) and it is audible for some asymmetric signals, for some people at least. But at higher frequencies, I have not seen any proof yet, e.g. when the phase shift occurs above 1 kHz due to a traditional x-over.

Does Phase Distortion/Shift Matter in Audio? (no*)

Kudos for your candour.

www.audiosciencereview.com

The thread is worth reading.

 

[Tangband]

You may say that. But, just by having ns10's along many, many other tools and clearly some knowledge at hand does not imply this man should keep them hidden in the closet. In his other videos he demonstrates how manipulating numerous plugins affects the sound of the mix and some of other relevant topics he approaches with a sense of humor.

To me at least it is valuable to hear how much harmonic distortion, clipping, brick wall limiting is already upstream in the signal before it even reaches our beloved systems. Circle of confusion is there, no doubt about it. But David Mellor at least points out that better cables cannot fix it.

This is the frequency response from ns10:

To be on topic again, one can also read that the ns10 had excellent start and stop response - maybe a good thing then ?

Yamaha NS-10 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

”A 2001 report by Newell et al. at Southampton University undertaken for Studio Sound in 2001 found that the NS-10 had excellent time-domain response at low frequencies – its ability to start and stop in response to signal input was found to be superior to that of most other nearfield monitors. Part of this was related to its closed-box design. The researchers held that the extremely fast decay time of the speaker in the low frequencies ensures that the bass instruments (guitar and drums) are correctly balanced in the mix.[5][4]”

 

[solderdude]

The NS10 is a tool that can be used during recording. It is not used for the final mixing process. Experienced users know the limits and purpose for this speaker.

I would not dismiss someone that has them in the background during a YT video recording as a final arbiter about knowledge/experience of the guy in the video.

 

[dualazmak]

Interestingly, you are discussing about Yamaha NS10 (NS-10M PRO), a "near-field" monitor.

Just for your interest and reference, in 1976 Swedish national broadcaster Sveriges Television chose Yamaha "NS-1000M" as its official monitor speaker, as it commanded respect as a professional monitor. Over 23 years up to 1997, over 200,000 units of this longtime bestseller were sold. I use NS-1000, not NS-1000M, though in my multichannel project.

As for the "transient behavior" (major topic of this thread) of 30 cm Yamaha woofer JA-3058 in sealed NS-1000 cabinet, I added two paragraphs at the bottom of my post #240 above on this thread.

 

[Tangband]

Interestingly, you are discussing about Yamaha NS10 (NS-10M PRO), a "near-field" monitor.

Just for your interest and reference, in 1976 Swedish national broadcaster Sveriges Television chose Yamaha "NS-1000M" as its official monitor speaker, as it commanded respect as a professional monitor. Over 23 years up to 1997, over 200,000 units of this longtime bestseller were sold. I use NS-1000, not NS-1000M, though in my multichannel project.

As for the "transient behavior" (major topic of this thread) of 30 cm Yamaha woofer JA-3058 in sealed NS-1000 cabinet, I added two paragraphs at the bottom of my post #240 above on this thread.

Yes, ns1000m was a much better speaker than ns10, and still is.

 

[Killingbeans]

This brings out a feeling in me that says - mastering engineers are maybe not needed at all ? They destroy the music with loads of compression and they obviously dont care about soundquality, using very inferior loudspeakers when mastering.

It's not their fault that 99.99% of the target consumers listen to music on inferior loudspeakers and find high dynamic range music to be dull and annoying.

In this case "soundquality" means a product that sells by the truckload. I bet most of them are perfectly able to make masters that get audiophiles all enamoured, but it's just not worth their time.

 

[Cbdb2]

This was the most stupid argument for using Yamaha ns10 I have ever heard. This statements are responsible for the ” circle of confusion ”.

Gunning-Kruger

 

[audiofooled]

FWIW this is normal/slow motion animation of in room low frequency transients of my system, playing some EDM. FFT at MLP.

 

[audiofooled]

Sorry about the delay (pun intended), but I thought I'd go and explain what you are seeing in the animation above.

This is a low frequency portion of the transient which is basically a sinewave pitching down (also with a secondary 58Hz sinewave). It was created by this artist, using kick 2 plugin in the similar way as he explains it himself. Granted this is not the same track and it is less hot in the 44Hz area, but It may be interesting for you to see and hear how this is done and the frequency range it actually contains, amp envelope, EQ, other effects and tools, etc. You can maybe compare how it sounds on your headphones and in your room. Self explanatory and well worth watching, IMO:

EDIT: Hint-pay attention to the time scale in milliseconds relative to the nodes and the mouse cursor movement, top right corner of the kick 2 plugin.

 

[Galliardist]

Listen to this @240p! Does it sound bad? Transients?

It could be clearer all round, but I'm comparing to a rare case of a better later remastering, I think...

 

[Tim Link]

Right, that phase starts rising at low frequencies, too. If we tried to push the flatness real low, the problem began.

The phase should naturally rise as the bass rolls off. You shouldn't have flat phase if you don't have flat frequency response. Is that correct?