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Is transient response the most important thing for the perceived audio quality in a system ?

Is transient response important for a good perceived sound ?

  • 1. No , not very important - explain why

    Votes: 18 43.9%
  • 2. Yes, very important - explain why

    Votes: 23 56.1%

  • Total voters
    41

ernestcarl

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Just wondering if the requested SPL at a given frequency is immediately present from the beginning.

Do you mean something like the ff?

1684697061878.png


1684697068854.png



"Time smear" from (what I assume is) a large compression diaphragm horn with phase plug and abrupt exit angles may look more like this:
*edit: re-directs now to correct pdf link

1684697450042.png


1684697457945.png
1684697467078.png
 
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GXAlan

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I think there may be something to this.
...
All of these earlier JBLs used a Qtc higher that 0.707 to give them that familiar "rock" sound. Some people equate this with punchy or good transient response in the bass.

For the Bluehorn system ... This system has subjectively excellent transient response.

Let's rename "transient response" to "1980's JBL L112-style punchy bass."

Are you saying that the Bluehorn has that same kind of classic JBL L112-style bass? [in a good way?]

This punchy bass is something I've *felt* at the symphony with percussion instruments and I *know* that it has to be distortion/phase, etc. I do think my Bose 901 Series VI has some of that same *feeling* as well.
 

Oristo

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Can you cite these quotes verbatim?
Dr. Floyd Toole: "It turns out that, within very generous tolerances, humans are insensitive to phase shifts.
Under carefully contrived circumstances, special signals auditioned in anechoic conditions, or through headphones,
people have heard slight differences. However, even these limited results have failed to provide clear evidence of a
'preference' for a lack of phase shift. When auditioned in real rooms, these differences disappear.."
The quote is from an AES paper, which will cost you $33 to read. For roughly the same cost,
nearly the same words appear near the top of page 93 in his "SOUND REPRODUCTION" third edition.

Impulse response completely characterizes linear time-invariant systems.
Since audio systems are not perfectly linear and change over time (warm up, break in, component aging)
impulse response cannot fully characterize them,
but to the extent that audiophiles aspire to linear audio systems,
transient response remains most important.

Mathematically, Fourier transform of an impulse (AKA Dirac delta function) is the frequency response of a system.
Dirac delta function Fourier Transform
Practically, impulse response measurement is interesting in real systems employing negative feedback;
output after initial transient is confounded by feedback delay.
Feedback delay is responsible for transient intermodulation distortion.
Transient response is nominally equivalent to testing loudspeakers using impulses brief enough to avoid confounding by room reflections.
 
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dualazmak

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Bone conduction is just another audio channel to the cochlear.

Yes, exactly.:)

My point related to "transient sound sensation", the theme of this thread, would be the relative amount/ratio of Bone Conduction and Air Conduction varies person to person (age dependency, too), and also dependent on Fq and gain of the sound.

In any way, Bone Conduction should not be ignored especially in hearing high-gain very-high-Fq sharp-transient sound. In other words, because of Bone Conduction, our transient hearing sensation also varies depending on the manner of our hearing; usual ear listening, headphone listening, inner-ear earbuds listening, room acoustic environments, and so on.
2023-05-22 054008.png
 

Doodski

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Yes, exactly.:)

My point related to "transient sound sensation", the theme of this thread, would be the relative amount/ratio of Bone Conduction and Air Conduction varies person to person (age dependency, too), and also dependent on Fq and gain of the sound.

In any way, Bone Conduction should not be ignored especially in hearing high-gain very-high-Fq sharp-transient sound. In other words, because of Bone Conduction, our transient hearing sensation also varies depending on the manner of our hearing; usual ear listening, headphone listening, inner-ear earbuds listening, room acoustic environments, and so on.
View attachment 287179
I trust you @dualazmak :D
 

ernestcarl

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Not exactly.

By the way, the blurring in the initial two graphs primarily depends on the room, correct?

Some of it, yeah… although, there is a cabinet/port resonance of the S8 (this unit) between 400-500Hz — which another loudspeaker reviewer noted it as well, but around 550Hz.

No room sound in the second set (horn) as that one’s likely (quasi?)anechoic.
 

Doodski

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I would simply rather compare and overlay the actual measured response to its extrapolated “minimum phase” version.
I'm presently in a zone where I am hearing very clearly and well.
 
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dualazmak

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I assume it would be allowed and worthwhile sharing here four "real air-recorded transient-sound tracks" of Sony Super Audio Check CD played and analyzed by MusicScope 2.1.0; please be careful to reduce playback gain/volume for the first time to listen to them.
Caution and Reminder:
Even though I refer to my YouTube video/audio clips in this post, I cannot guarantee its sound quality since I know little about YouTube's audio codec/compression, and furthermore I know nothing about your internet access environments.

Track-17: Low Frequency Playback Limit Check

Track-18: Sound Transient Check

Track-19: Sound Peak Power Check

Track-20: High Frequency Linearity Check
 

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  • SONY Super Audio Check CD_ Booklet_English by dualazmak_rev03.pdf
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Doodski

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I must say that the sound quality and recording was excellent. The Track #18 was a shocker and after I was wide awake for the remainder of the tracks. :D Very good recordings.
 

dualazmak

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I must say that the sound quality and recording was excellent. The Track #18 was a shocker and after I was wide awake for the remainder of the tracks. :D Very good recordings.

Yes, now you may clearly understand again the value of Sony Super Audio Check CD!;)
 

ernestcarl

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I assume it would be allowed and worthwhile sharing here four "real air-recorded transient-sound tracks" of Sony Super Audio Check CD played and analyzed by MusicScope 2.1.0; please be careful to reduce playback gain/volume for the first time to listen to them.

Track-17: Low Frequency Playback Limit Check

Track-18: Sound Transient Check

Track-19: Sound Peak Power Check

Track-20: High Frequency Linearity Check

It would be interesting to try and apply all pass filters to some of these test tracks -- possibly even to try and simulate/convolve it with a phase plug horn model that's actually "time smearing" as well -- and see if people can hear a difference via Foobar ABX plugin. The former would be much simpler, though, to create. Ideally, the system used to listen to the tracks is linear phase already as well for easier critical listening e.g. headphones.
 
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