Is this distortion or something else?

[Sokel]

That's how spectrum looks like:

 

[bachatero]

That's how spectrum looks like:

View attachment 377851

Ruh Roh:

Those numbers in the chart line up almost exactly with the distortion measurements, which means I'm just hearing the Kali's signal distortion. There might not be any noise here but rather not good enough distortion performance.

Should I save up for the Neumann KH150s now?

 

[Adis]

Ruh Roh:
View attachment 377854
Those numbers in the chart line up almost exactly with the distortion measurements, which means I'm just hearing the Kali's signal distortion. There might not be any noise here but rather not good enough distortion performance.

Should I save up for the Neumann KH150s now?

Do this first:

...and if it doesn't go away buy new speakers.

 

[SSS]

This happens on both speakers.


Enjoy!

Hard to say what it might be. My experience is that almost all speakers and speaker chassis create harmonics and sometimes additonal noise when driven by clean sine waves around 500 Hz to 3 kHz. With music this is not really perceivable. Although the overtone of your recording is not matching the 440 Hz harmonics frequency it looks like a 3rd harmonic in the Musicscope analyzer software.

 

[kemmler3D]

That sure does look like 3rd harmonic.

It doesn't totally explain why you perceived changes in pitch with changes in volume, but if different harmonics were becoming dominant at different volume levels, I dunno, maybe that could be it?

 

[Sokel]

it looks like a 3rd harmonic in the Musicscope analyzer software.

Yes:

 

[bachatero]

On one hand, it's nice to know I can hear such little distortion. On the other hand, it's not so nice to need to go to the top to get something acceptable.

 

[kemmler3D]

On one hand, it's nice to know I can hear such little distortion. On the other hand, it's not so nice to need to go to the top to get something acceptable.

Hearing distortion at -55dB down shows good listening skills... but yes, what they don't tell you is good listening skills destroy your budget and peace of mind.

Just think of it like this: you will not have to wonder if you can really justify the higher-end gear.

 

[Sokel]

Did a similar at my desktop powered Fostex for comparison and consistency and that's how they look:



They must have internal tubes,H2 is dominant

Seriously now,this H3 is not much it's just happens to be in a very sensitive ear area.
Anything there can point out with the right conditions.

 

[bachatero]

Seriously now,this H3 is not much it's just happens to be in a very sensitive ear area.
Anything there can point out with the right conditions.

I did some testing at lower frequencies and I could still hear a little of this annoying distortion. Could it be that third harmonics tend to sound worse than seconds because they tend to be at higher frequencies?

 

[Sokel]

I did some testing at lower frequencies and I could still hear a little of this annoying distortion. Could it be that third harmonics tend to sound worse than seconds because they tend to be at higher frequencies?

To tell you the truth what I hear in your file is not the H3 but some faint rather uncorrelated noise,disturbance-like.
If you listen to it side by side with the one I posted it's not different,it's just like the background noise is higher.

Can be the recording of course,try to listen to it on headphones to see.

 

[bachatero]

To tell you the truth what I hear in your file is not the H3 but some faint rather uncorrelated noise,disturbance-like.

I checked this again and I can't actually find any evidence of this noise even though it definitely sounds like there's one. All that exists is the main tone and the faint harmonics, and the rest of the noise in the room.

 

[danadam]

It doesn't totally explain why you perceived changes in pitch with changes in volume, but if different harmonics were becoming dominant at different volume levels, I dunno, maybe that could be it?

Well yes, they are. Here's spectrum of 5 seconds starting from 7th second, H3 is ~70 dB below the tone:

and here's 5 seconds starting from 14th second, H3 is ~50 dB below the tone:

 

[tmtomh]

Wow, that's... unusual. What could possibly cause that kind of variable spike in H3?

 

[Ktacos]

I tested this today on my kali lp6 v2, the noise was immediately audible upon giving the speaker a 440hz tone. I moved the tone around a bit so this screenshot is sitting at 400hz. The added noise has an oscillation to it. SPL level was just the regular level I listen at, couldn't tell you the number but it's not loud. The noise to me has a sort of digital-ness to it if that makes sense, it sounds like it's being generated at some stage in the amplifier, and not an acoustic issue. I placed my hands firmly on the cabinet in various locations but saw no change in the added peaks in the response below. I wonder what it could be, of course test tones aren't music but I've always felt like the woofer on these speakers was their weak point. I don't really even use the speakers for mixing even though I bought them for that, I've just never trusted the woofer, it sounds off to me. I will usually just use my nice open headphones or iems when in this room. Perhaps I should follow OP's footsteps and look for something else as well.

 

[Tim Link]

I had similar experiences with the 10" woofers in my midbass horns. I thought they sounded bad, so I played test tones and it became very apparent that there were other tones playing along with the generated tones. In my case it was a mechanical problem. I could make the noise go away by pushing on the spiders with my fingers. Something had gotten out of alignment or come loose, and in a very similar way for both drivers. Fortunately I had some other 10" drivers on hand from another project. They're almost perfectly quiet, but if I crank up the volume and listen carefully, at a certain frequency one of them makes a little noise.

 

[kemmler3D]

I checked this again and I can't actually find any evidence of this noise even though it definitely sounds like there's one. All that exists is the main tone and the faint harmonics, and the rest of the noise in the room.
View attachment 378303

I dunno, the harmonics look pretty clearly visible there when you turn up the volume. Would not be surprised if they were audible. And the frequencies are cut off but you have some kind of high pitched tone way above the tone and harmonics...?

 

[Ktacos]

I hooked up three different woofers (some peerless 6", dayton dsa135, and dayton dc130) to the kali amp and close mic'd them running the 400hz tone. Here's what I got. Is this enough info to conclude that the distortion is coming from the amp or is it just harmonics of the drivers?

 

[kemmler3D]

I hooked up three different woofers (some peerless 6", dayton dsa135, and dayton dc130) to the kali amp and close mic'd them running the 400hz tone. Here's what I got. Is this enough info to conclude that the distortion is coming from the amp or is it just harmonics of the drivers?

View attachment 384861

View attachment 384862

View attachment 384863

The distortion spectra look a bit different, but then again the drivers will also have different frequency responses, so I think it's hard to say.

I would say the 3rd harmonic looks unusually high in all cases but it's not a smoking gun.

I think the thing to do in this case is measure the output of the amp directly using an ADC. However, I don't think most ADCs are capable of handling multi-watt inputs. Amir's tests handle this but his measurement gear is super expensive. Not sure what I'd do next here.

 

[Ktacos]

The distortion spectra look a bit different, but then again the drivers will also have different frequency responses, so I think it's hard to say.

I would say the 3rd harmonic looks unusually high in all cases but it's not a smoking gun.

I think the thing to do in this case is measure the output of the amp directly using an ADC. However, I don't think most ADCs are capable of handling multi-watt inputs. Amir's tests handle this but his measurement gear is super expensive. Not sure what I'd do next here.

I can measure the kali woofer by itself with another amp.