Is there such a thing as "box sound"?

[klettermann]

It's a bit funny, they (he, who ever made that line area open buffle atrocity) tried to achieve some separation with that additional side panels on inner side. I doubt it worked, I doubt even much bigger barrier in the middle world work sufficiently enough. Tho in mono it might sound deacent (theoretically and with DSP).

Obviously aesthetics wasn't a goal. But measurements or not, the guys who designed and built this absolutely did use a lot of physics and math along the way. They're nuclear submarine-adjacent sonar scientists. Their view is 'why measure when you can calculate it right in the first place?' That extends to placement, etc etc. I can attest to the fact that the whole thing really does sound amazing. The prevailing ASR view is "If it measures well it will sound good." Perhaps that inverts to "If it sounds good it must measure well." Tweeter is Magneplanar and crosses over at 10Khz for whatever reason.

 

[Arindal]

Perhaps that inverts to "If it sounds good it must measure well."

If it does sound good with a vast variety of different recordings, that is almost certainly the result, minor narrow-banded flaws not included.

Tweeter is Magneplanar and crosses over at 10Khz for whatever reason.

From loudspeaker design theory that sounds like 2 recipes for disaster in one... vertical bending-wave and out-of-phase behavior plus severe horizontal lobing and cancellation.

 

[ZolaIII]

Obviously aesthetics wasn't a goal. But measurements or not, the guys who designed and built this absolutely did use a lot of physics and math along the way. They're nuclear submarine-adjacent sonar scientists. Their view is 'why measure when you can calculate it right in the first place?' That extends to placement, etc etc. I can attest to the fact that the whole thing really does sound amazing. The prevailing ASR view is "If it measures well it will sound good." Perhaps that inverts to "If it sounds good it must measure well." Tweeter is Magneplanar and crosses over at 10Khz for whatever reason.

Obviously they where trying to cheat physics and we know that doesn't work. Side panels are added later end that's why they are separate. If you like mono sure.

 

[klettermann]

Obviously they where trying to cheat physics and we know that doesn't work. Side panels are added later end that's why they are separate. If you like mono sure.

Interesting, how cheat physics? I don't know physics so I can't assess.

I know for certain they weren't a later addition. It's triamped with XO and EQ going through some kind of studio parametric EQ.

All the comments aside though, I've listened to this thing a lot and it sounds superb. Source is 99% vinyl. TT is powered by some kind of battery system (of course )

 

[Snarfie]

I think the expression is “boxy sound.” I hear it with many speakers that have a conventional baffle or cabinet, compared to panel speakers or designs like Vandersteen, which use a minimal baffle approach.

To me, a boxy sound is a bit like putting your hands around your mouth to project your voice it becomes more directional and slightly colored by the “box.” I also notice that voices tend to stay more in one spot.

With panel speakers, voices sound more transparent and natural to me.

 

[Arindal]

I think the expression is “boxy sound.” I hear it with many speakers that have a conventional baffle or cabinet, compared to panel speakers or designs like Vandersteen, which use a minimal baffle approach.

That would be kind of introducing yet another definition of what ´boxy sound´ is, as the latter type of speakers (more expensive B&W being the most prominent example) are still subject to enclosure/air related phenomena as well as a baffle step in terms of directivity (which is just vastly dependent on diaphragm area, not baffle geometry).

To me, a boxy sound is a bit like putting your hands around your mouth to project your voice it becomes more directional and slightly colored by the “box.”

I personally would file that under horn or waveguide coloration.

I also notice that voices tend to stay more in one spot.

There is a clear definition for that, it is called localization stability. You mean to say that voices are more stable with horn/waveguide like speakers, or with baffle-less models?

 

[Snarfie]

That would be kind of introducing yet another definition of what ´boxy sound´ is, as the latter type of speakers (more expensive B&W being the most prominent example) are still subject to enclosure/air related phenomena as well as a baffle step in terms of directivity (which is just vastly dependent on diaphragm area, not baffle geometry).



I personally would file that under horn or waveguide coloration.



There is a clear definition for that, it is called localization stability. You mean to say that voices are more stable with horn/waveguide like speakers, or with baffle-less models?

From my (subjective) experience, panel speakers tend to let voices blend more naturally into the space between instruments, so the distance between them feels more realistic. With many conventional box speakers, voices sometimes seem more fixed in one spot between the speakers.

 

[Arindal]

panel speakers tend to let voices blend more naturally into the space between instruments, so the distance between them feels more realistic.

You are referring to aspects of reproduction quality called depth-of-field, realistic proximity, envelopment of phantom sources and ambience. I can confirm your observation, but we should note that it is not limited to panel speakers.

With many conventional box speakers, voices sometimes seem more fixed in one spot between the speakers.

I know what you mean, and I call this ´reverb detached from the phantom sources´, or the opposite of realistic depth-of-field and enveloped phantom sources. I can offer a theory having to do with disadvantageous baffle step and higher directivity in the >2.5K bands. So it usually happens with speakers of limited baffle width plus waveguide/horn/coaxial for the tweeter, but it is not inevitable or exclusively avoided by panel speakers.