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Is there anything wrong with linear tracking turntable technology?

I share your feelings. I would like to add the ability to waste your time in specialized shops, the pleasure to find a rare edition, the listening experience after a deep cleaning of an old record... A lot of ways to spend time on different rituals.
 
So if you read optically the signal, you can store the info in a file and no 'eed to use the turntable anymore, just the first time you read the media, don't you think so?
No - because the signal is still analog.

To me the vinyl experience is tactile mostly....the large artwork, handling of the disc, the ritual of placement/cleaning/stacking of the disc, tweaking of tone controls, etc.

Not actual sound quality or consistency certainly.

I guess for all of us. Else we would only stream HD Fileformats
 
The tactile and ritualistic side to vinyl playback cannot ever be ignored. In my case, I have two turntables that show up the extremes of this -

First is the Garrard Lab 80mk2 'tractor' that's currently pictured in my avatar. I adore this clunky old thing (mine is currently suffering the 'Garrard Glue' syndrome on the auto cam pivot as lubricants have hardened over sixty years with many years inert in storage). The arm is happy with modern pickups and the substantial platter and drive is as quiet as an idler drive can be. As with my much missed Dual 1229, there's an order to the clicks and clonks of the mechanism I've memorised (oh bloody hell...).

The second is my early 70s B&O 3000/SP12. Place a record on the platter, press a silver disc on this one) and the deck does it all rapidly and silently as only half the auto cam is used at any one time. press the disc while playing and the arm lifts and the deck stops. Side end and stop is again rapid. Almost no input from the user at all.

Not mine, but here's a YouTube of this model playing a 7" 45 single


These linear tracking machines are similar as in the case of the Technics, place record on the platter, lower the lid and press play - that's it unless cueing is required. Now I'm older, I rather like the automation, but way back when I was a 'HiFi Enthusiast,' I needed to be hands on with it all...
 
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You need to make sure that the replacement stylus you purchase is high compliance as per the T4P specifications...

Most current tonearms are much higher mass than T4P specifies, and therefore most of the market is for styli with lower compliance... which won't track properly on a T4P arm.

Jico make good replacement styli but you need to be careful... here is an example..


This is a stylus for the very typical Technics T4P cartridges EPC-P55 (a very very common cartridge, sold under various brand names and model numbers)

But looking at the Jico specifications for tracking for.... it states 2.5g

From this you can absolutely tell that it is NOT designed for T4P - T4P tracks at 1.25g .... and tracking at 1.25g will require high compliance - any stylus with VTF of 2.5g is going to be a low compliance design, and will mate well with a heavy to mid mass arm.

I stress, this is likely to be a high quality stylus - but not appropriate for a low mass / P-Mount / T4P arm.

Here is another stylus from Jico, same fitting (so it is interchangeable with the previous one above) - but this one is specified with a tracking force of 1g to 1.5g.


This one is likely to work well in a T4P low mass arm.

They look the same, and without very close inspection, may not look different at all (ignore the colour, they are both available in various colours) ....

The former would work well in a "standard" tonearm, the latter will require a low mass arm or a T4P arm.
OT, but this has become a bit of a problem for Dual CS 505/506's which have very low-mass arms, it's very difficult finding the high compliance 1.0-1.5g trackers they need. Ortofon still supply replacement styli (or they did last time I looked about 5 years ago) for the OE cartridges but they're expensive. An excellent alternative used to be the Audio Technica AT110E (similar price to, or not much more than the evergreen AT95E) but they stopped making it 15 or more years ago. NOS AT110E's or styli now command rather high prices.
 
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Sure, that solves the wear and tear issue. But I feel like that defeats much of what vinyl is really about - like the tactile experience, the physical album with large cover art, inserts/posters, and all the little joys of interacting with real-world objects.

Of course, it doesn’t bypass the filter - the mastering for vinyl, the cutting, the pressing, and the mechanical reading - before it’s stored as zeros and ones. But that part is independent of the pickup type, whether it’s optical or electromagnetic.
Arguably original pressings of recordings that might be 40 or more years old can sound better than aged master tapes. Many of the latter have degraded substantially or been lost (10's of 1000's went up in flames in the 2008 Universal warehouse fire). That being the case, it can be well worth doing one's own digital recordings (and removing pops and clicks, which is trivially easy).
 
Looks to me like the DS Audio cartridges that use a stylus and needle but no magnets...
They use optical sensors instead.
If you check out some reviews (I know), they apparently out-perform practically all 'motor' type cartridges. A fundamental difference is that they are amplitude-sensing, magnetic generators translate the speed/velocity, i.e the movement of the stylus to voltage.
 
No - because the signal is still analog.



I guess for all of us. Else we would only stream HD Fileformats
What difference does "analog" signal make? I don't bother with HD streaming, not really any advantage over CD or even some lossy formats. I just rarely use vinyl no matter what kind of tt/arm is involved.....it's still just vinyl.
 
linear tracking.

But I quickly noticed that almost no new linear-tracking turntables exist today, aside from a few obscure offerings like The Wheel. Cool, yes - but with multiple tracking axes and swipe-style controls, it feels like overkill.

So why is there no market for them?
Have you ever thought that, while there is a bit more complexity and sometimes difficulty in repairing them, that those that have them, like them so well that they do not often put them up for sale?
Here is some info on mine (with a picture of mine & a YouTube video of someone else's.
Technics SL-M3:
Type: fully automatic

Drive method: direct drive

Motor: brushless DC motor

Drive control method: quartz phase locked control

Platter: 325mm, 2.5kg, aluminum die-cast

Pitch control: +-6% range

Speeds: 33 and 45rpm

Wow and flutter: 0.022% WRMS

Rumble: -82dB

Tonearm: dynamically-balanced linear tracking

Effective length: 238mm

Effective mass: 13g (including cartridge)

Cartridge: moving magnet

Replacement stylus: EPS-33ES

Dimensions: 526 x 205 x 425mm

Weight: 15kg

Here is a picture of my Technics SL-M3 (the only turntable in my house [my other TT is a DUAL 1229 which is at my mother's house]).
IMG_0246.JPG


Mine is also complicated by using a T4P (9 certain spec of P-Mount cartridge) for which I have a couple of NOS Technics P33, several NOS variations of the SHURE P-Mounts (V15 LT, V 15 V-P & a few others), and a GRADO GOLD GOLD 3.
Repairing TT's these can be an issue, also:

But I do not know anyone that currently has a working higher end linear tracking TT that would be willing to sell it.
Low popularity at the time led to scarcity and those that have them, tend to keep them, because when working properly, they are damn good.
EJ3
 
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Have you ever thought that, while there is a bit more complexity and sometimes difficulty in repairing them, that those that have them, like them so well that they do not often put them up for sale?
Here is some info on mine (with a picture & a YouTube video of someone else's.
Technics SL-M3:
Type: fully automatic

Drive method: direct drive

Motor: brushless DC motor

Drive control method: quartz phase locked control

Platter: 325mm, 2.5kg, aluminum die-cast

Pitch control: +-6% range

Speeds: 33 and 45rpm

Wow and flutter: 0.022% WRMS

Rumble: -82dB

Tonearm: dynamically-balanced linear tracking

Effective length: 238mm

Effective mass: 13g (including cartridge)

Cartridge: moving magnet

Replacement stylus: EPS-33ES

Dimensions: 526 x 205 x 425mm

Weight: 15kg

Here is a picture of my Technics SL-M3 (the only turntable in my house [my other TT is a DUAL 1229 which is at my mother's house]).
View attachment 466623

Mine is also complicated by using a T4P (9 certain spec of P-Mount cartridge) for which I have a couple of NOS Technics P33, several NOS variations of the SHURE P-Mounts (V15 LT, V 15 V-P & a few others), and a GRADO GOLD GOLD 3.
Repairing TT's these can be an issue, also:

But I do not know anyone that currently has a working higher end linear tracking TT that would be willing to sell it.
Low popularity at the time led to scarcity and those that have them, tend to keep them, because when working properly, they are damn good.
EJ3
Generally I just find most of your posts to be lacking in knowledge/facts. This is a really silly corner of audiophilia in any case.
 
My Revox B795 runs well to this day - the only awkward thing about it, is that the ULTRA low mass arm (4g) means it really needs very high compliance cartridges - which are now rare....

This is partly offset by fitting a T4P adapter and using T4P cartridges - which raises the total mass of the arm (almost doubling it!) and styli are a lot easier to find for ordinary "high compliance" rather than ultra high compliance.

For a while I considered selling it in the 1990's after an "upgrade" to MC cartridge at a high end store, resulted in less than stellar performance.... I eventually (a decade later) worked out that this was due to the store having sold me a mid-compliance cartridge that really did not work well with the low mass arm.... once I replaced it with a high compliance cartridge again, the music came back.
Caveat emptor - a lot of retail audio "experts" - are far from that!!!

Changing cartridges on the Linatrack arm is quite an involved process... (a pain in the neck!) - converting it with a T4P adapter, makes swapping cartridges easy! - Later in that turntable/arm families life, Revox shipped them, ex factory, with a T4p adapter and cartridge in place....

I even have the remote kit and remote in a box somewhere.... so it can be controlled from ones listening seat if desired - but I have never bothered to fit them.
 
Caveat emptor - a lot of retail audio "experts" - are far from that!!!
Whenever someone invokes the word "expert" my BS detector goes into the "watch out for the subtle BS that, at first glance, seems to make sense (then go through it on a microscopic and macro level 3 times, at least.") All the while doing the hardest part: remaining socially acceptable.
 
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Whenever someone invokes the word "expert" my BS detector goes into the "watch out for the subtle BS that, at first glance, seems to make sense (then go through it on a microscopic and macro level 3 times, at least." All the while doing the hardest part: remaining socially acceptable.
IIRC that doesn't match up with your recommendations/testimonials but maybe I'm thinking of someone else....
 
OT, but this has become a bit of a problem for Dual CS 505/506's which have very low-mass arms, it's very difficult finding the high compliance 1.0-1.5g trackers they need. Ortofon still supply replacement styli (or they did last time I looked about 5 years ago) for the OE cartridges but they're expensive. An excellent alternative used to be the Audio Technica AT110E (similar price to, or not much more than the evergreen AT95E) but they stopped making it 15 or more years ago. NOS AT110E's or styli now command rather high prices.
Most of the later Duals used Ortofon OM pickups, the now expensive OM20 suiting the 505 model seriously well (it only used to be a fraction of the cost now). The half-inch adaptors of earlier models can still be got, but you have to be so careful in fitting one to the headshell as the lugs can snap off easily. I dunno, in the mid 70s I cut my teeth fitting seemingly dozens of M75-EDs to Pioneer PL-12Ds and later on Ortofon FF15Es into Dual adaptors (the very very first LM pickups were AT based I seem to remember and not as good as the Ortofons they went over to - hazy memories here as we whipped them out and fitted FF15Es instead, which equate roughly with an OM5e or maybe the OM10 (F15E?).

The 110E had posher internal wiring, but I can't remember if the body and internal layout was the 95E standard or the superior (for separation) 120/440/500/700 type. I have a good 110E here and it's very much of its time tonally, a bit 'safe' and thicker bass quality - one of these that if liked, you wouldn't care for 'digital' for all the original reasons... ;)
 
What difference does "analog" signal make? I don't bother with HD streaming, not really any advantage over CD or even some lossy formats. I just rarely use vinyl no matter what kind of tt/arm is involved.....it's still just vinyl.
You are missing the context of my answer.
the Audio signal is alwways analog when you can hear it. But to store it in a file it need to be converted to digital. Only using a optical pickup won't be enough,
But ADC are cheap and more as good enough for records

Here is a picture of my Technics SL-M3
I love the SL-M3 mine is in storage. Don't have the space for it and with childrend there is to little time to just enjoy a evening with a record

For a while I considered selling it in the 1990's after an "upgrade" to MC cartridge at a high end store, resulted in less than stellar performance.... I eventually (a decade later) worked out that this was due to the store having sold me a mid-compliance cartridge that really did not work well with the low mass arm.... once I replaced it with a high compliance cartridge again, the music came back.
Caveat emptor - a lot of retail audio "experts" - are far from that!!!
In German there is the Word "Fachverkäufer" (roughly translate to Expert salesperson).
Fach is the german Word for shelf and also for area of expertise. So it is more someone who sells something from shelfs.
 
(...) The 110E had posher internal wiring, but I can't remember if the body and internal layout was the 95E standard or the superior (for separation) 120/440/500/700 type. (...)

If you stare hard at these, you'll see, that the AT105/110E/115E are actually based on the generator capsule of the AT70 family. I don't have one of these in my collection, though, and also haven't yet found any official generator specs for any of these three - so I can't tell, whether AT merely equipped these with fancier wire (LC-OFC) or the generator data would also differ from the generator data for the AT70s.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
I've discussed this with high end turntable afficianodos who think nothing of paying thousands just for a tonearm.

Universally they believe that 'linear tracking creates as many problems as it solves.' Because that's what they've been told by people with a vested interest in conventional tonearms.

That's possibly why we don't see any high end linear trackers.

For mass market a good implementation will be more expensive than a 'normal' arm. Since the market is polarising into budget or high end, with little in between, there's no market for a quality linear tracker which would inevitably fall into that gap, price wise.

As noted above, it is also not what people are used to or expect with a turntable.
I also suspect most companies do not have the required in house skills to build a linear tracker. They'd have to buy in, making it a risky investment if it didn't sell.

I have owned a couple in my time. A beautiful TOTL Kenwood which I've regretted selling for 30 years, and a Technics SL6.

One of the best turntables I ever heard was a Technics SL1200 motor unit, encased in concrete, with an air bearing linear tracking arm. The arm used an electric motor from a fish tank pump which did make some noise and needed to be sited in an adjacent room, ideally.

After this, when people ask "why is vinyl still popular?", just reply: "show me another source that requires two rooms to be accommodated."
 
Most of the later Duals used Ortofon OM pickups, the now expensive OM20 suiting the 505 model seriously well (it only used to be a fraction of the cost now). The half-inch adaptors of earlier models can still be got, but you have to be so careful in fitting one to the headshell as the lugs can snap off easily. I dunno, in the mid 70s I cut my teeth fitting seemingly dozens of M75-EDs to Pioneer PL-12Ds and later on Ortofon FF15Es into Dual adaptors (the very very first LM pickups were AT based I seem to remember and not as good as the Ortofons they went over to - hazy memories here as we whipped them out and fitted FF15Es instead, which equate roughly with an OM5e or maybe the OM10 (F15E?).

The 110E had posher internal wiring, but I can't remember if the body and internal layout was the 95E standard or the superior (for separation) 120/440/500/700 type. I have a good 110E here and it's very much of its time tonally, a bit 'safe' and thicker bass quality - one of these that if liked, you wouldn't care for 'digital' for all the original reasons... ;)
All good info.

A problem with the 1/2" adapters for the 'cam' mount Dual 505/506 is the height they added, which resulted in a 'tail down' tracking angle (VTA) which really rolled off the HF.

I sold my CS 505 1 some years back (having done a total overhaul including stripping the motor and re-impregnating the phosphor-bronze bearings). Despite its original-spec spherical stylus it was one of the best trackers I've ever owned, sailed through bass-heavy end-of-side tracks clean as a whistle. Still have a couple of 'rips' to remind me.
 
All good info.

A problem with the 1/2" adapters for the 'cam' mount Dual 505/506 is the height they added, which resulted in a 'tail down' tracking angle (VTA) which really rolled off the HF.

I sold my CS 505 1 some years back (having done a total overhaul including stripping the motor and re-impregnating the phosphor-bronze bearings). Despite its original-spec spherical stylus it was one of the best trackers I've ever owned, sailed through bass-heavy end-of-side tracks clean as a whistle. Still have a couple of 'rips' to remind me.
The then Ortofon FF15E was/is a fairly 'squat' pickup, as were the VMS models, so maybe kept the VTA a little more 'correct.' We tended to slip away from the ULM-era Duals I admit (for US based readers, the full auto-change models weren't sold here by this time and I seem to recall only the 505 models remained in this market). I can't remember which 505 model came as standard with a derived Ortofon OM model, as the then inexpensive OM20 stylus really refined the sound I remember. By the time of the popular 505-3 with proper half-inch cartridge fittings, the price was not too different from a Rega 2 and we sold as many Regas as they'd send us... I still have my stash of Duals and am eternally fond of them I have to say (last count, 1009SK2, 1019, modified 1214, 601 and my main-rig 701).
 
I can't remember which 505 model came as standard with a derived Ortofon OM model, as the then inexpensive OM20 stylus really refined the sound I remember.
That was the 505-2 (also including the 505-2 DeLuxe, the better looking variant with wood plinth). That came with the ULM65E (= renamed OM10) - just like the later 505-3 also did. Pretty mysterious, however, why Dual went for a different, less convenient headshell design on the -3 - just to revert to the easily swappable headshell design of the -2 on the -4. Well, and the 1st generation of the 505-4 was the technically best 505er, as it inherited the heavier platter version and nice rubber mat from the -3 and came with the ULM68E (= renamied OM20). Whereas later generations suffered from several downgades, especially during the Fehrenbacher era.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
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