Is there anything wrong with linear tracking turntable technology?

[DSJR]

My college roommate in 1971-72 had one of these. Worked well for him. Much cooler looking than my Dual 1209!

I love my old Duals to bits and the absolute precision of the controls and workings as a whole are a joy, but Garrards of this vintage did so much so well despite huge amounts of (Plessey) penny pinching going on it astounds me they work at all, let alone reproduce records as well as they can. I need a good clean late issue SL95B to finish me off I think, as the massive arm actually worked well. @Frank Dernie, who knows a good bit about this era I think (am I too early for you Frank?), will probably have heart failure here..... (The Lab 80mk2 in my current avatar is built to last centuries, but later models went very sloppy and 'tacky' in all ways but the motors before getting their act together again in the early-ish 70s - I believe they did some tech cross-pollination with Dual, but I'm going off again).

Back to topic - Technics had a range of these linear tracking models, both 'full width' as well as compact like the SL5 and 7. I think they all did basically very well indeed if carefully sited and with better pickups/styli than the basic models the cheaper ones came with (I had no idea at the time how advanced the MM stylus in the SL7 was, as my then preference was for the down-tilted Rega R100 and extensive sibling family [lives on as the Sumiko Pearl I believe]). Tracking is supposed to be 1.25g or so and T4-P pickups supposedly interchangeable - no idea what's around now as time has slipped by so quickly.

 

[dlaloum]

These Technics decks were excellent (the SL7 was 'our' model to sell, but nowt wrong with the 5 or even gorgeously made 10), but they do now need more specialised servicing on the arm traverse belts and so on. Original Technics styli ran out decades ago and a beautifully-tipped third party replacement I bought (for a half-inch mount version of the cartridge), won't track properly below 1.75g.

A once popular record producer and sometime artist (Rupert Hine r.i.p.), bought an SL7 from me and loved it's ease of use and basic neutrality - back then, we had speakers geared towards a dull pickup, so these techies sounded thin and relentless - how little I knew and realised back then...

Hope the SL5 gives many years of enjoyment

You need to make sure that the replacement stylus you purchase is high compliance as per the T4P specifications...

Most current tonearms are much higher mass than T4P specifies, and therefore most of the market is for styli with lower compliance... which won't track properly on a T4P arm.

Jico make good replacement styli but you need to be careful... here is an example..

EPS-55CS NUDE – JICO

www.jico-stylus.com

This is a stylus for the very typical Technics T4P cartridges EPC-P55 (a very very common cartridge, sold under various brand names and model numbers)

But looking at the Jico specifications for tracking for.... it states 2.5g

From this you can absolutely tell that it is NOT designed for T4P - T4P tracks at 1.25g .... and tracking at 1.25g will require high compliance - any stylus with VTF of 2.5g is going to be a low compliance design, and will mate well with a heavy to mid mass arm.

I stress, this is likely to be a high quality stylus - but not appropriate for a low mass / P-Mount / T4P arm.

Here is another stylus from Jico, same fitting (so it is interchangeable with the previous one above) - but this one is specified with a tracking force of 1g to 1.5g.

EPS-202ED SAS/B – JICO

www.jico-stylus.com

This one is likely to work well in a T4P low mass arm.

They look the same, and without very close inspection, may not look different at all (ignore the colour, they are both available in various colours) ....

The former would work well in a "standard" tonearm, the latter will require a low mass arm or a T4P arm.

 

[levimax]

You need to make sure that the replacement stylus you purchase is high compliance as per the T4P specifications...

Most current tonearms are much higher mass than T4P specifies, and therefore most of the market is for styli with lower compliance... which won't track properly on a T4P arm.

Jico make good replacement styli but you need to be careful... here is an example..

EPS-55CS NUDE – JICO

www.jico-stylus.com

This is a stylus for the very typical Technics T4P cartridges EPC-P55 (a very very common cartridge, sold under various brand names and model numbers)

But looking at the Jico specifications for tracking for.... it states 2.5g

From this you can absolutely tell that it is NOT designed for T4P - T4P tracks at 1.25g .... and tracking at 1.25g will require high compliance - any stylus with VTF of 2.5g is going to be a low compliance design, and will mate well with a heavy to mid mass arm.

I stress, this is likely to be a high quality stylus - but not appropriate for a low mass / P-Mount / T4P arm.

Here is another stylus from Jico, same fitting (so it is interchangeable with the previous one above) - but this one is specified with a tracking force of 1g to 1.5g.

EPS-202ED SAS/B – JICO

www.jico-stylus.com

This one is likely to work well in a T4P low mass arm.

They look the same, and without very close inspection, may not look different at all (ignore the colour, they are both available in various colours) ....

The former would work well in a "standard" tonearm, the latter will require a low mass arm or a T4P arm.

Yes this, and in addition some (Jico SAS is one unfortuneately) of the replacement stylus for p-mount are not compliant with the overhang dimension. This is an issue for p-mount linear trackers obviously.

 

[Frank Dernie]

@Frank Dernie, who knows a good bit about this era I think (am I too early for you Frank?)

I was there in the Plessey era and there started off being some good people and plans but a new MD changed everything, probably to make him look good short term for his next job whilst guaranteeing long term failure.
There was some clever production engineering there to get good technical performance at low production cost. That arm probably has better audio performance than a contemporary SME, certainly the ones in production when I was there did, I measured them...
Luckily for me I had been working on racing car concept stuff part time since 1972 and got an offer of a full time job in Formula 1 in 1977 so I was out before it went completely wrong.

 

[Viper780]

A example of what I have done

audiofolies - SL7

La première platine Technics à bras tangentiel vraiment diffusée par la marque sort en 1979 et c'est la SL10... Deux années après Technics propose une machine moins complexe qui repose sur les mêmes principes, moins onéreuse et que certains considèrent comme meilleure que la SL10 (HiFi Choice

sites.google.com

I really enjoy these linear tracking turntables.

Thanks for the Tip - is there also a english Version of it?

I've collected some tangetial record players in the last 20 years (mostly Technics SL-7 and SL-10, but also SL-DL and QL. Also have one SL-15, SL-M3 and two Sony PS-X555ES)
But after 40 years they need some love

 

[DSJR]

Thanks for the Tip - is there also a english Version of it?

I've collected some tangetial record players in the last 20 years (mostly Technics SL-7 and SL-10, but also SL-DL and QL. Also have one SL-15, SL-M3 and two Sony PS-X555ES)
But after 40 years they need some love

Go on the worldradiohistory site for the HiFi Choice test books 'Turntables, 1981 and 1983' authored by Martin Colloms. Sadly, the SL5 as a new item was found not to be as good value as the SL7, but these days with gleaned experience over the decades, I reckon a better cartridge and/or stylus and VERY careful siting away from the speakers and resonant furniture would sort it out...

 

[Viper780]

I have a "wallmount" console for the turntables

I know what this turntables can deliver. I also have several cartridges with sharp sylus. But I love the original EPS-310 MC from the SL-10
Also have one EPC-P205Cmk3 (sadly there is no aftermarket needle for it)

I was thinking about a repair manual or what to do after 40 years to keep em playing for another 40

 

[renaudrenaud]

Thanks for the Tip - is there also a english Version of it?

I've collected some tangetial record players in the last 20 years (mostly Technics SL-7 and SL-10, but also SL-DL and QL. Also have one SL-15, SL-M3 and two Sony PS-X555ES)
But after 40 years they need some love

Your browser should be able to translate from one language to another.

By the way, impressive collection. I am living as an expat since the end of COVID and all my turntables are not with me, I bought another Technics SL1200 mk7 but I would like to use the SL7 again... Probably in 2 or 3 years...

 

[DSJR]

I have a "wallmount" console for the turntables

I know what this turntables can deliver. I also have several cartridges with sharp sylus. But I love the original EPS-310 MC from the SL-10
Also have one EPC-P205Cmk3 (sadly there is no aftermarket needle for it)

I was thinking about a repair manual or what to do after 40 years to keep em playing for another 40

Much to my eternal deep shame, I tried the 205C III back in the early 80s and disliked it as it sounded thin and toppy (as did a good Shure V15 III), and just as CD did for us at the time. IF ONLY I EFFIN' REALISED it was the speakers mostly, screamers with no bass (no wonder I didn't cringe at the NS10s we had on dem for a while as the models we sold mimicked this balance a bit).

It wasn't until a few years later, by that time the rigs we owned and sold had 'calmed down' a bit from the 'domestic PA systems we were inadvertently using, that I realised how good the Technics cartridge really was and also, the V15 III once properly set up (I still hold a very bright torch for the V15VMR but my stylus broke sadly - not my fault either ).

Vinyl Engine has many Technics decks' manuals (including service manual for the SL7) to download if you're a member. There's strict instructions for peeps like me NOT to share or distribute, but signing up is free and downloads from the library easy to obtain

 

[Viper780]

I'm a VE Member. I'll have a look.

For the V15V MR still are excellent aftermarket stylus. Even with wooden cantilever

SHURE – JICO

www.jico-stylus.com

 

[tengiz]

For those who might be interested - the Wheel 3 linear-tracking turntable is now available for preorder. It’s a sleek design, no doubt, but I personally can’t justify spending that much on a beautifully engineered device that, by design, can’t possibly match the audio performance of digital playback.

 

[tengiz]

They have what they call "a revolutionary optical stylus. No magnets, no coils—just light, shaping the purest analog audio." The picture, however, looks like a normal stylus and cantilever with a screen attached to it. So it's an optical pickup, but otherwise it still uses a conventional stylus with all the usual wear and tear.

I thought something like this existed before - not the laser turntables that avoid mechanical contact with the groove, but a different method of converting mechanical displacement into an electrical signal.

 

[renaudrenaud]

They have what they call "a revolutionary optical stylus. No magnets, no coils—just light, shaping the purest analog audio." The picture, however, looks like a normal stylus and cantilever with a screen attached to it. So it's an optical pickup, but otherwise it still uses a conventional stylus with all the usual wear and tear.

I thought something like this existed before - not the laser turntables that avoid mechanical contact with the groove, but a different method of converting mechanical displacement into an electrical signal.

So if you read optically the signal, you can store the info in a file and no 'eed to use the turntable anymore, just the first time you read the media, don't you think so?

 

[dlaloum]

I have a "wallmount" console for the turntables

I know what this turntables can deliver. I also have several cartridges with sharp sylus. But I love the original EPS-310 MC from the SL-10
Also have one EPC-P205Cmk3 (sadly there is no aftermarket needle for it)

I was thinking about a repair manual or what to do after 40 years to keep em playing for another 40

I too have an EPC-P205, and have been hoping for years that Jico (or similar) will release a worthy needle...

no such luck.

 

[dlaloum]

For those who might be interested - the Wheel 3 linear-tracking turntable is now available for preorder. It’s a sleek design, no doubt, but I personally can’t justify spending that much on a beautifully engineered device that, by design, can’t possibly match the audio performance of digital playback.

Would love to see this put through the wringer by some of our expert measurement geeks!

 

[dlaloum]

They have what they call "a revolutionary optical stylus. No magnets, no coils—just light, shaping the purest analog audio." The picture, however, looks like a normal stylus and cantilever with a screen attached to it. So it's an optical pickup, but otherwise it still uses a conventional stylus with all the usual wear and tear.

I thought something like this existed before - not the laser turntables that avoid mechanical contact with the groove, but a different method of converting mechanical displacement into an electrical signal.

Yes, from memory Toshiba released something like this... (back in the day) and I have a feeling there have been a number of efforts to update and rerelease the concept.

 

[dennis h]

Would love to see this put through the wringer by some of our expert measurement geeks!

Looks to me like the DS Audio cartridges that use a stylus and needle but no magnets...
They use optical sensors instead.

 

[tengiz]

Looks to me like the DS Audio cartridges that use a stylus and needle but no magnets...
They use optical sensors instead.

Which begs the question - what kind of revolution are the makers of The Wheel 3 talking about?

 

[tengiz]

So if you read optically the signal, you can store the info in a file and no 'eed to use the turntable anymore, just the first time you read the media, don't you think so?

Sure, that solves the wear and tear issue. But I feel like that defeats much of what vinyl is really about - like the tactile experience, the physical album with large cover art, inserts/posters, and all the little joys of interacting with real-world objects.

Of course, it doesn’t bypass the filter - the mastering for vinyl, the cutting, the pressing, and the mechanical reading - before it’s stored as zeros and ones. But that part is independent of the pickup type, whether it’s optical or electromagnetic.

 

[Chrispy]

Sure, that solves the wear and tear issue. But I feel like that defeats much of what vinyl is really about - like the tactile experience, the physical album with large cover art, inserts/posters, and all the little joys of interacting with real-world objects.

Of course, it doesn’t bypass the filter - the mastering for vinyl, the cutting, the pressing, and the mechanical reading - before it’s stored as zeros and ones. But that part is independent of the pickup type, whether it’s optical or electromagnetic.

To me the vinyl experience is tactile mostly....the large artwork, handling of the disc, the ritual of placement/cleaning/stacking of the disc, tweaking of tone controls, etc.

Not actual sound quality or consistency certainly.