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Is there an AV Processor which can act as an Pre-Amp for high quality stereo music experience?

Juhazi

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Hallo, i was thinking of a faaaaar distance future upgrade to an 5 channel Amplifer and an AV Processor which could also act as an pre-amp for my music playback. I tried to do a similar test with my Yamaha RX-V781 but the sound quality i got was pure garbage. So i was wondering if there is an AV Processor out there capable of quality music playback?

Thank you for your replies in advance :)

What was your problem? I have had RX-V630 and now RX-V685. No problems with sound quality, but quantity! Pre-out voltage of 685 is lower. But still no problems with noise here. I have a Denon that has buzzing pre-outs and more complicated user interface.

Nowdays it's hard to find a mid-price AVR with pre-outs that follow main volume.

I use AVR for listening to TV (also multichannel UHD), BluRay, CD, Spotify and vinyl. 2ch signal as 2ch mostly. My main speakers are diy 4-way and amps are ICEpower modules. No subs needed. Multichannel integration with 2-way center channel is poor, because phase through spectrum is different. Having identical speakers for L/C/R would be optimal, and that's what I have in HT room.
 
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Matias

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By amplifying the Central channel not from the AVR but from a power amp. What difference did you notice? Is the sound thicker and more power?
Currently I don't use a center speaker. But if I did, I would use 1 channel of class D amp and use the C out of my AVR.
 

Matias

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Nowdays it's hard to find a mid-price AVR with pre-outs that follow main volume.

What? From what I know, pre-outs (RCA analog audio out) always follow the main volume, plus some setting for gain +/- per channel on the menus.
 
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Reksos007

Reksos007

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What? From what I know, pre-outs (RCA analog audio out) always follow the main volume, plus some setting for gain +/- per channel on the menus.

Agree pre-outs are very common right now in medium priced AVR
 
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Reksos007

Reksos007

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What was your problem? I have had RX-V630 and now RX-V685. No problems with sound quality, but quantity! Pre-out voltage of 685 is lower. But still no problems with noise here. I have a Denon that has buzzing pre-outs and more complicated user interface.

Nowdays it's hard to find a mid-price AVR with pre-outs that follow main volume.

I use AVR for listening to TV (also multichannel UHD), BluRay, CD, Spotify and vinyl. 2ch signal as 2ch mostly. My main speakers are diy 4-way and amps are ICEpower modules. No subs needed. Multichannel integration with 2-way center channel is poor, because phase through spectrum is different. Having identical speakers for L/C/R would be optimal, and that's what I have in HT room.

The test was done on my father's gear. Primare A32 and PRE32. Before we got our hands on the PRE32 as our preamp then the PRE32 arrived and it blew away my V781. More detail, better volume adjustment, tighter bass. The difference was night and day in the music playback
 

Dimifoot

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What is the difference between Lyngdorf, Bryston/Storm Audio, Trinnov vs JBL SP55, Arcam AV40 and Anthem AVM60? Is the 5 figure price for the brand or for the more fancy room correction?
Better room correction, more bass management options, better stability, excellent customer support.
 

MZKM

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But what about their longevity? Before i bought my Yamaha rx-v781 i read a lot about Denon/Marantz issues and saw a lot of owners switching from these 2 brands back to Yamaha.
On Reddit's home theater forum, everyone loves Denon, never heard about longevity issues being worse than competitors.
 

Putter

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The test was done on my father's gear. Primare A32 and PRE32. Before we got our hands on the PRE32 as our preamp then the PRE32 arrived and it blew away my V781. More detail, better volume adjustment, tighter bass. The difference was night and day in the music playback

Whenever I see terms like 'blew away', I think expectation bias. Obviously no blind tests or even volume matching.

I'm far from convinced that a blind test would show a difference between a mid level receiver like the Yamaha or Denon without room correction, but supplemented by power amps and any top of the line equipment notwithstanding the mediocre results from Amir's testing.
 
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Reksos007

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Better room correction, more bass management options, better stability, excellent customer support.

I just checked out the price at Lyngdorf MP-60. Before i searched i was bit happy as Lyngdorf is fairly popular here so i thought hey might get a stellar deal on it. Then i checked the price 100.000 DK = 14.000 $ o_Oo_Oo_O I i i i think i am satisfied with what i own XD
 
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Reksos007

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Whenever I see terms like 'blew away', I think expectation bias. Obviously no blind tests or even volume matching.

We are not pros but i came with expectations that the Receiver will hold its own. I try to abstain from the audiophile community myth. Get burned a lot when i auditioned various speakers. So i though the difference will be small. After playing around with gain settings not much changed. The general sound signature was so different even with the room correction used that we didnt bother with further testing. Again both me and my father are noobs when it comes to the technical details so we might did something wrong.
 
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Reksos007

Reksos007

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On Reddit's home theater forum, everyone loves Denon, never heard about longevity issues being worse than competitors.

We talking about the older or newer models? as the older hold up mostly well but its the newer one with the vast amount of fancy futures, that i read dont live long.
 

MZKM

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We talking about the older or newer models? as the older hold up mostly well but its the newer one with the vast amount of fancy futures, that i read dont live long.
I have not read anything about one brand lasting longer than another in terms of new models.

If you see 2x the complaints on Denon, but Denon outsells the competitor by 2x, then the rate of failure is the same.
 

Putter

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We talking about the older or newer models? as the older hold up mostly well but its the newer one with the vast amount of fancy futures, that i read dont live long.

Checking reviews on Amazon doesn't seem to indicate this. In fact the older the model, the lower the rating. Obviously as they get very, it's more likely to have something go wrong. The biggest problem with AV receivers seems to have been when they were 'forced' to use HDMI. Onkyo in particular suffered, but there were more failures in Denon and other brands.
 

Juhazi

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Sorry, yes Pre-outs by definition follow main volume unlike Line outs.

Now I get the feeling that many of you are so young, that you didn't have FM/AV receivers during 1990-2000s. Then in early stages of multichannel, pre-outs of all 5.1 channels was norm. Then gradually as HDMI got more popular, analog in/outs started to vanish. Now most low/mid price AVRs have only 1-2x sub out. I have had many AVRs during last 25 years, and the obviously broken second hand Denon was the only one with sound quality problem. Also none of my hifi friends has had such experience like Reksos.

Reksos007 descriptions of her/his problems and garbage sound are most likely because of false/poor settings. Could be DSP settings in AVR or in separate amps and speakers. Analog pre-out signal quality simply just cannot be that bad! S/N ratio of analog pre-outputs is obviously not super good, but symptoms do not match with noise being the problem.
rxv781 specs.jpg
 
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Reksos007

Reksos007

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Sorry, yes Pre-outs by definition follow main volume unlike Line outs.

Now I get the feeling that many of you are so young, that you didn't have FM/AV receivers during 1990-2000s. Then in early stages of multichannel, pre-outs of all 5.1 channels was norm. Then gradually as HDMI got more popular, analog in/outs started to vanish. Now most low/mid price AVRs have only 1-2x sub out. I have had many AVRs during last 25 years, and the obviously broken second hand Denon was the only one with sound quality problem. Also none of my hifi friends has had such experience like Reksos.

Reksos007 descriptions of her/his problems and garbage sound are most likely because of false/poor settings. Could be DSP settings in AVR or in separate amps and speakers. Analog pre-out signal quality simply just cannot be that bad! S/N ratio of analog pre-outputs is obviously not super good, but symptoms do not match with noise being the problem.
View attachment 54841
It could be, again i am no pro or have any technical knowledge but based on amir reviews i doubt that the current Receivers are good enough to be used as pre-amp with their low quality DACs.
 

pacdpm

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Oh...don't forget the OUTLAW 976.2 and the Cocktail Audio X50D...and the Cocktail Audio X45PRO...and the....see? You've created a monster!!!
 

LightninBoy

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If you don't need Dolby Atmos or 4k switching, then I think a lot of the last generation PrePros / AVRs would work great and would be relatively affordable. For a high end example - right now there's a Classe SSP-800 on audiogon for $1800. For less than 1K, you can get a new Outlaw 976 or used Emotiva XMC-1. Both have flexible EQ systems that will make much more of an audible difference than a couple of SINADs.
 
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Reksos007

Reksos007

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Oh...don't forget the OUTLAW 976.2 and the Cocktail Audio X50D...and the Cocktail Audio X45PRO...and the....see? You've created a monster!!!
If you don't need Dolby Atmos or 4k switching, then I think a lot of the last generation PrePros / AVRs would work great and would be relatively affordable. For a high end example - right now there's a Classe SSP-800 on audiogon for $1800. For less than 1K, you can get a new Outlaw 976 or used Emotiva XMC-1. Both have flexible EQ systems that will make much more of an audible difference than a couple of SINADs.

How dose these processors compare to arcam av30 or anthem av60 in terms of music playback? I know it's a huge price difference but Im asking so I know if the vast difference in price also introduces vast difference in music playback
 

Vinylshadow

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If you don't need Dolby Atmos or 4k switching, then I think a lot of the last generation PrePros / AVRs would work great and would be relatively affordable. For a high end example - right now there's a Classe SSP-800 on audiogon for $1800. For less than 1K, you can get a new Outlaw 976 or used Emotiva XMC-1. Both have flexible EQ systems that will make much more of an audible difference than a couple of SINADs.
I have an SSP-800. It is a remarkable AV/2ch processor. For $1800, if it is in great working condition, it is a steal.
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/tas-194-classe-audio-ssp-800-multichannel-controller-1
 
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