• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Is there a right and wrong music we should listen to?

john5220

Active Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
175
Likes
97
By that I mean how do we determine if a music was recorded properly in a studio?

I was made a mockery by some users in the USA Audiophile community for mentioning I liked this Local Trinidad song which apparently isn't up to audiophile quality because it isn't recorded in a studio? and the singer doesn't have a proper quality voice.....but if so how come there isn't wind blowing into the mic if this was really recorded by the sea? I was also made fun of picking music this and things like Space EDM as my choice of music I like.

I am not sure how to pick music that is of Audiophile standard.

 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
Well if it sounds good to you on at least decent speakers/headphones then it is recorded good enough.

You cannot argue about taste in music. Ignore those that make an attempt.
 

JJB70

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
2,905
Likes
6,148
Location
Singapore
Well if it sounds good to you on at least decent speakers/headphones then it is recorded good enough.

You cannot argue about taste in music. Ignore those that make an attempt.

This, not much more to say on this one.
 
OP
J

john5220

Active Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
175
Likes
97
I was told to avoid auto tune music, not sure if this guy is using Auto tune but yeah I usually stick to no vocal music mostly unless Carnival comes around in Trinidad here there are some music like this that pops up that I enjoy. Other than that I guess I can't help what I like
 

majingotan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
1,512
Likes
1,782
Location
Laguna, Philippines
I was told to avoid auto tune music, not sure if this guy is using Auto tune but yeah I usually stick to no vocal music mostly unless Carnival comes around in Trinidad here there are some music like this that pops up that I enjoy. Other than that I guess I can't help what I like

Everyone has their own taste. Don't listen to elitists thinking anything auto tune is terrible. Just listen to any kind of music you enjoy and follow @solderdude's advice.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,524
Likes
37,057
If the argument is this bit of music isn't well recorded for judging your playback system's accuracy, then I would agree. If it is whether or not you should like this music, then as already said, musical taste is subjective. And your preferences are yours and that is about that.

I think the music you link to has been rather heavily processed, partly because of where the original recording was, and possibly all of what you are hearing or some of it was dubbed in later for the video. All of which makes it less than an optimum choice for using it to judge system quality in terms of accuracy or realism. None of which matters if you like the music and your system makes it fun to listen to this music. Two separate questions.
 

oivavoi

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
1,721
Likes
1,935
Location
Oslo, Norway
Music (and art in general) is subjective. Anybody who says that some music is better than another is an elitist douchebag and should not be taken seriously.

I guess that would make into an elitist douchebag, then... Why is it that people still listen to Bach and Beethoven, while most of the other composers from those periods are forgotten? Why do new generations keep on discovering the Beatles, while most of the 60s bands get forgotten? Why do people still listen to John Coltrane or Charles Mingus, while much of the other other jazz from the 50s and 60s is fading in importance?

Or turning to literature: Why do people still read Shakespeare, Tolstoy or Proust?

You could make the argument that this is just the result of a cultural elite imposing their taste on ever new generations, and thereby securing their social standing as the "true connaisseurs" of art, literature and music. And there might be something to that. But I don't think that's the whole thing. There does seem to be some music and some literature that just has more staying power - it allows people to keep on discovering it and loving it, year after year and generation after generation.

So yeah, I think some music is better than others. But it's kind of a collective effort over time to figure out what music has real staying power. I'm not going to claim that my own taste is the correct one (even though most of you blokes do have terrible taste! ;) ).

EDIT: And let it be said that I do like the song in the OP!

Furthermore, the degree to which a certain recording has more or less dynamic range, or more or less spatial information, is an objective question with objective answers. Whether that is better than recordings with less dynamic range and less spatial information is another matter.
 

restorer-john

Grand Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
12,588
Likes
38,291
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
I was made a mockery by some users in the USA Audiophile community for mentioning I liked this Local Trinidad song which apparently isn't up to audiophile quality because it isn't recorded in a studio?

The song is clearly recorded in a studio and if the people in the "USA Audiophile" community had half a brain between them they would hear (and see) that.

It's just a music video and they are not playing. Not only that, there's no audience and no equipment- the cables go nowhere. Look at the reflections in the lead singer's glasses- there is one guy on the whole beach and another with the camera.

1574021235025.png
 

threni

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
1,277
Likes
1,519
Location
/dev/null
I was told to avoid auto tune music

I hope he showed you his special Really Good At Listening To Music badge, otherwise how would you know it wasn't just some chump telling you what they like to listen to?
 

pozz

Слава Україні
Forum Donor
Editor
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
4,036
Likes
6,827
Listen to whatever you want. I have plenty of lo-fi music I like.
 

Fluffy

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 14, 2019
Messages
856
Likes
1,423
I guess that would make into an elitist douchebag, then... Why is it that people still listen to Bach and Beethoven, while most of the other composers from those periods are forgotten? Why do new generations keep on discovering the Beatles, while most of the 60s bands get forgotten? Why do people still listen to John Coltrane or Charles Mingus, while much of the other other jazz from the 50s and 60s is fading in importance?

Or turning to literature: Why do people still read Shakespeare, Tolstoy or Proust?

You could make the argument that this is just the result of a cultural elite imposing their taste on ever new generations, and thereby securing their social standing as the "true connaisseurs" of art, literature and music. And there might be something to that. But I don't think that's the whole thing. There does seem to be some music and some literature that just has more staying power - it allows people to keep on discovering it and loving it, year after year and generation after generation.

So yeah, I think some music is better than others. But it's kind of a collective effort over time to figure out what music has real staying power. I'm not going to claim that my own taste is the correct one (even though most of you blokes do have terrible taste! ;) ).

EDIT: And let it be said that I do like the song in the OP!

Furthermore, the degree to which a certain recording has more or less dynamic range, or more or less spatial information, is an objective question with objective answers. Whether that is better than recordings with less dynamic range and less spatial information is another matter.
You exemplify the essence of the elitist argument – "I and people around me love a thing, therefore it is a better thing than one that we don’t love". If you think about it, it's no wonder that if you love a piece of music, you surround yourself with other people that also love it, thus affirming its apparent inherent quality. It's not only true for Bach or the Beatles – every person can take a look at the music his surroundings (this includes "true connoisseurs", critics, magazines, award ceremonies, etc) are regarding as "good", and conclude that therefore it is good. You can call it "staying power", or maybe "true artistry", you can call the artists visionaries or pioneers – in the end, their apparent quality in your mind depends on how you choose to define quality. And for elitists, it's defined by the taste-makers they choose to follow, and their taste is ultimately justified by.

Therefore, my real point is this – there is not intrinsic value in art, just preference. And abundance of preference towards something is still just preference, and not an indicator of inherent quality. Hence, nothing is better than anything else.

edit: Of course, this apply to all forms of art, not just music. Books, films, plastic art, etc.
 
OP
J

john5220

Active Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
175
Likes
97
Agreed with all that is posted here, my all time favoritte song however is this one "bubbles" by Horikawa best experienced in FLAC if you ask me

 

pozz

Слава Україні
Forum Donor
Editor
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
4,036
Likes
6,827

Killingbeans

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
4,089
Likes
7,552
Location
Bjerringbro, Denmark.
I was also made fun of picking music this and things like Space EDM as my choice of music I like.

Don't listen to those snobs. There's no right or wrong when talking personal taste.

I am not sure how to pick music that is of Audiophile standard.

Don't bother.

A good recording/mastering doesn't automatically make a piece of music more enjoyable.

Listen to what you enjoy for whatever reason. If it happens to be a nice recording, it's just a big bonus.

Some of the music I listen to was never meant to sound good in any way, but I couldn't care less. I enjoy it for the lyrics, the energy and the attitude.

Knowing and understanding the motivations behind your own personal choices is endlessly more important than blindly following those that are imposed on you.
 
Last edited:

oivavoi

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
1,721
Likes
1,935
Location
Oslo, Norway
You exemplify the essence of the elitist argument – "I and people around me love a thing, therefore it is a better thing than one that we don’t love". If you think about it, it's no wonder that if you love a piece of music, you surround yourself with other people that also love it, thus affirming its apparent inherent quality. It's not only true for Bach or the Beatles – every person can take a look at the music his surroundings (this includes "true connoisseurs", critics, magazines, award ceremonies, etc) are regarding as "good", and conclude that therefore it is good. You can call it "staying power", or maybe "true artistry", you can call the artists visionaries or pioneers – in the end, their apparent quality in your mind depends on how you choose to define quality. And for elitists, it's defined by the taste-makers they choose to follow, and their taste is ultimately justified by.

Therefore, my real point is this – there is not intrinsic value in art, just preference. And abundance of preference towards something is still just preference, and not an indicator of inherent quality. Hence, nothing is better than anything else.

edit: Of course, this apply to all forms of art, not just music. Books, films, plastic art, etc.

I'm not sure if you really understood my argument... or if you understand it and just disagree. I am NOT claiming that the things that I happen to like personally are inherently good. There are lots of works of art - music, literature, etc - which don't appeal to me at all. But given that so many people find something to like in it, time and again, I just assume that there are things there I haven't discovered, or which don't resonate with me for some reason. Mozart for example, I never quite seem to get his greatness. But I'm not going to claim that Mozart made bad compositions. That wold be silly, IMO.

Same thing goes for whole genres of music that mostly bore me - indie pop, hard metal, some other things - I assume there are things there that appeal to people and speak to them. But even within metal music there are recordings which seem to have staying power. While other recordings don't.

EDIT: My simple view is that artistic quality - whatever the genre - is that a work of art has the ability to resonate with different people at different times, at different places, time and again. Many works seem over time to lose this ability. Whereas some works seem to stick around.

You may claim that this is all a result of taste-makers imposing their taste on others, or something similar... I just don't think that's the case. There are many philosophical or sociological arguments to be made about this, but I somehow doubt I'll be able to convince you that I'm right here tonight :)
 
Last edited:

strangeskies

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
50
Likes
65
Hence, nothing is better than anything else.

Sweet, the Problem of Axiology has been definitively resolved

And here you've made a truth claim regarding one of humanity's most enduring philosophical problems. Careful with your hences....comes as across as elitist and reckless with deduction.
 

fuzzyqoute

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
11
Likes
3
I've never understood music elitists in audiophile circles I've gotten told I'm invalid for enjoying industrial before. But then again they lose their minds over Black metal being noisy and lo-fi.
 

RayDunzl

Grand Contributor
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
13,204
Likes
16,986
Location
Riverview FL
john5220 said:
Is there a right and wrong music we should listen to?


"The most important thing in art is The Frame. For painting: literally; for other arts: figuratively -- because, without this humble appliance, you can't know where The Art stops and The Real World begins.

You have to put a 'box' around it because otherwise, what is that shit on the wall?

If John Cage, for instance, says, "I'm putting a contact microphone on my throat, and I'm going to drink carrot juice, and that's my composition," then his gurgling qualifies as his composition because he put a frame around it and said so. "Take it or leave it, I now will this to be music." After that it's a matter of taste. Without the frame-as-announced, it's a guy swallowing carrot juice."



"So, if music is the best, what is music? Anything can be music, but it doesn't become music until someone wills it to be music, and the audience listening to it decides to perceive it as music.

Most people can't deal with that abstraction -- or don't want to. They say: "Gimme the tune. Do I like this tune? Does it sound like another tune that I like? The more familiar it is, the better I like it. Hear those three notes there? Those are the three notes I can sing along with. I like those notes very, very much. Give me a beat. Not a fancy one. Give me a GOOD BEAT -- something I can dance to. It has to go boom-bap, boom-boom-BAP. If it doesn't, I will hate it very, very much. Also, I want it right away -- and then, write me some more songs like that -- over and over and over again, because I'm really into music."

-- F.Z.
 

threni

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
1,277
Likes
1,519
Location
/dev/null
"The most important thing in art is The Frame. For painting: literally; for other arts: figuratively -- because, without this humble appliance, you can't know where The Art stops and The Real World begins.

You have to put a 'box' around it because otherwise, what is that shit on the wall?

If John Cage, for instance, says, "I'm putting a contact microphone on my throat, and I'm going to drink carrot juice, and that's my composition," then his gurgling qualifies as his composition because he put a frame around it and said so. "Take it or leave it, I now will this to be music." After that it's a matter of taste. Without the frame-as-announced, it's a guy swallowing carrot juice."



"So, if music is the best, what is music? Anything can be music, but it doesn't become music until someone wills it to be music, and the audience listening to it decides to perceive it as music.

Most people can't deal with that abstraction -- or don't want to. They say: "Gimme the tune. Do I like this tune? Does it sound like another tune that I like? The more familiar it is, the better I like it. Hear those three notes there? Those are the three notes I can sing along with. I like those notes very, very much. Give me a beat. Not a fancy one. Give me a GOOD BEAT -- something I can dance to. It has to go boom-bap, boom-boom-BAP. If it doesn't, I will hate it very, very much. Also, I want it right away -- and then, write me some more songs like that -- over and over and over again, because I'm really into music."

-- F.Z.

That said, Civilization Phaze III is clearly a better album than Francesco Zappa!
 
Top Bottom