Is The Revel Ultima Salon2 STILL the State Of The Art?

[TurtlePaul]

I read Bogle's book and adopted his financial philosophy way back in my 20s. Highly recommended for anyone needing investment guidance. ASR readers will really appreciate Bogle's thinking and data. But making the psychological shift to spending is one I am actively working on as I just retired earlier this year. There's the logic of, oh, I can buy that and it will make absolutely no material difference to our daily lives financially and then there is the decades old practice of being reasonable and valued conscious! Not automatic to undo the latter.

It is tough to talk about audio pricing because of income and wealth inequality. People buying $20k speakers are likely a mix of people all along the spectrum from people taking personal consumer debt to buy them to people with $1 million+ income/$25 million+ net worth who don't even notice the payment deducted from their account.

I am upgrading my amp from a Fosi v3 stereo to a e3 Audio A7 for my Revel F206 speakers. I had to think to pull the trigger, I told my wife. "Will is sound better? Almost certainly won't be perceptible." Then I did the math and the financial impact of the $250 amp is a grand total of one days interest from my bond portfolio.

My mother is now semi-retired (her old company keeps her part-time as a consultant). She is also facing the similar "issue" that the mortgage will be paid off in a few months and she will have a six-figure retirement income between pensions, RMDs, her Social Security, an old annuity, my father's survivors benefit, etc.

 

[Oddball]

There is still some of the middle class left that can afford discretionary spending. While obviously the rich can afford many things in parallel , middle class might need to choose what to focus on. Having a $100K car is nice, but then so is to have a great Hi-Fi system. If you can't have both, then it's up to you to chose.

Not the world I had in mind or like, but it just turned that way.

 

[traind]

A guy who sold Lamborghinis for years said in an interview that most people buying them needed financing. The people who could buy them outright were much harder to sell than the people struggling to make the money work out. He mentioned the people who wanted it the most were the ones who needed to finance but I think it's also the person who has accumulated that wealth has habits around spending that make it hard to splurge. I'm not including people who have started businesses and made a fortune in IPOs or selling their business but the person who is invested slowly over time.

 

[Oddball]

I can buy my Lamo or finance it? Not sure of difference it makes. I would really not care, except that I would never buy a Lambo.

 

[Lsc]

Just curious, at USD$8K for an excellent used pair of Salon2, you would pay 3x or more for Blade Meta 2 and Kii 3 BXT or is that cost not factored in?

The thought of spending $24k more to get a pair of speakers… I think I hit my ceiling. Over the years…

F208 $5000 retail but paid $3800.
Then sold the F208 to F228Be, incremental cost was about $3k. Then sold the F228Be to salon2 (used), incremental cost was about $4k.

When spread over time the incremental cost was tolerable for my wife. But now I’m at the point where I need to spend a lot more money to improve on what I have (dang diminishing returns). Everyone has their sweet spot and unfortunately mine isn’t going to be at $375k for the Magico M7. The same goes for my amps and preamp. The cost to get “significant” improvements cost too much (for me).

What this means to me is that while I don’t have anything that’s SOTA (although maybe the Gothams have a claim), my stuff sounds very good to me and it’s “good enough”.

Running the salons with the Gothams and F112 / CR-1, it does feel a little closer to SOTA but there are a lot of good stuff out there. Money no object SOTA.

 

[Oddball]

The thought of spending $24k more to get a pair of speakers… I think I hit my ceiling. Over the years…

F208 $5000 retail but paid $3800.
Then sold the F208 to F228Be, incremental cost was about $3k. Then sold the F228Be to salon2 (used), incremental cost was about $4k.

When spread over time the incremental cost was tolerable for my wife. But now I’m at the point where I need to spend a lot more money to improve on what I have (dang diminishing returns). Everyone has their sweet spot and unfortunately mine isn’t going to be at $375k for the Magico M7. The same goes for my amps and preamp. The cost to get “significant” improvements cost too much (for me).

What this means to me is that while I don’t have anything that’s SOTA (although maybe the Gothams have a claim), my stuff sounds very good to me and it’s “good enough”.

Running the salons with the Gothams and F112 / CR-1, it does feel a little closer to SOTA but there are a lot of good stuff out there. Money no object SOTA.

I have no money object SOTA setup that is likely lower priced than yours. Happy to get disfigured by resident goons for the claim. So more than happy to discuss at high level. All details can be had in ART thread so folks are free do use the search function. I am not a jubox, so when you put a coin in it, I will just spit it out.

 

[Nondemo01]

Perlisten would be highly unlikely or if I did it was unknowing, I have not heard of the company before. Magico and Rockport only at hifi shows and I never took note of what their models were. IMO I would not pay much attention to what I heard at a show.

You should make it a point to go listen to them. Dan Roemer and Lars Johansen have been designing MANY of the speakers that are praised and well regarded. They decided to stop working for others and make their own. The Perlisten S7t Black Edition is quite possibly the best designed, best built, and best performing speaker I've ever seen or heard at any price. Their CEDIA demo was unlike anything I'd ever encountered. If you spend as much time as you say flying to see classical concerts, you owe it to yourself to check out their Black Editions. In 2025, it's as close as you'll get to "live".

 

[levimax]

The Perlisten S7t Black Edition is quite possibly the best designed, best built, and best performing speaker I've ever seen or heard at any price.

Do you know of any measurements for these? I could not find any online. A lot of things, especially the build details, are impressive, but they are very limited production which generally does not lend itself to a high value to performance proposition.

 

[Lsc]

You should make it a point to go listen to them. Dan Roemer and Lars Johansen have been designing MANY of the speakers that are praised and well regarded. They decided to stop working for others and make their own. The Perlisten S7t Black Edition is quite possibly the best designed, best built, and best performing speaker I've ever seen or heard at any price. Their CEDIA demo was unlike anything I'd ever encountered. If you spend as much time as you say flying to see classical concerts, you owe it to yourself to check out their Black Editions. In 2025, it's as close as you'll get to "live".

I also concur that Perlisten is an excellent speaker brand. Maybe not to your level of enthusiasm but they have things very well thought out especially for people like me who want an all in one music and movies system. This is something I can’t achieve with my ultima2 speakers.

The only negatives for me are the way they look and the low tweeter placement. I think my salon’s tweeters are way too high but it’s what I’m used to.

And yes, I like the black edition concept. It’s a bargain compared to Magico I guess.

 

[jhaider]

I also concur that Perlisten is an excellent speaker brand. Maybe not to your level of enthusiasm but they have things very well thought out especially for people like me who want an all in one music and movies system. This is something I can’t achieve with my ultima2 speakers.

How so?

Obviously three identical speakers is the way to go (though I hear no advantage for Perlisten there either), but if you have to mismatch Perlisten’s centers are all poor performers. They’re basically toppled MTMs - the three-tweet array doesn’t go nearly low enough. The horizontal polars tell the tale. Revel’s 3-way centers are vastly better.

 

[Matias]

The cost to get “significant” improvements cost too much (for me).

my stuff sounds very good to me and it’s “good enough”.

After 2 decades in this hobby I reached these same conclusions, and it's liberating.

 

[Nondemo01]

I also concur that Perlisten is an excellent speaker brand. Maybe not to your level of enthusiasm but they have things very well thought out especially for people like me who want an all in one music and movies system. This is something I can’t achieve with my ultima2 speakers.

The only negatives for me are the way they look and the low tweeter placement. I think my salon’s tweeters are way too high but it’s what I’m used to.

And yes, I like the black edition concept. It’s a bargain compared to Magico I guess.

Go have a listen to their Black or Limited Editions, you'll definitely rethink what's possible. I'm also not a fan of their look and went a different route as I wanted everything under $30K and the Perlistens would have had me waiting for my "end game" system (not to mention they weight 247lbs EACH! Yikes. I thought my Arendals were heavy.) Their DPC array is pretty ingenious for how it controls vertical and horizontal dispersion. As far as measurements, Audioholics did a review of their S7t and the special editions have reportedly better drivers, much tighter tolerance in their parts, and is matched to within 1 db per pair on Perlisten's Klippel. I bet if you asked for their measurements, you'd get them.

 

[xanalog]

There is also Welti (free to read).

Per the summary link, this following sentence took me by surprise:

However, through the use of multiple subwoofers the seat-to-seat variation in the frequency response can be reduced significantly, allowing subsequent equalization to be more effective.

I did not even know that they existed, in any significant level that would need reduction.
Does this also mean that sub location(s) become 'significantly' more critical?

 

[Lsc]

How so?

Obviously three identical speakers is the way to go (though I hear no advantage for Perlisten there either), but if you have to mismatch Perlisten’s centers are all poor performers. They’re basically toppled MTMs - the three-tweet array doesn’t go nearly low enough. The horizontal polars tell the tale. Revel’s 3-way centers are vastly better.

I’d like every single speaker to be timbre matched from the same line.

 

[jhaider]

I’d like every single speaker to be timbre matched from the same line.

I prefer to use real words not marketing jargon. But regardless that didn’t answer my question. You wrote of Perlisten, “they have things very well thought out especially for people like me who want an all in one music and movies system. This is something I can’t achieve with my ultima2 speakers.” Develop that thought a little.

Also, even if you accept the “timbre matching” premise (I don’t - there’s the same, and various degrees of difference) then how can that possibly apply to a left/right speaker with even horizontal coverage and a center with quite uneven horizontal coverage? That just seems notably poorly thought out to me.

 

[Lsc]

I prefer to use real words not marketing jargon. But regardless that didn’t answer my question. You wrote of Perlisten, “they have things very well thought out especially for people like me who want an all in one music and movies system. This is something I can’t achieve with my ultima2 speakers.” Develop that thought a little.

Also, even if you accept the “timbre matching” premise (I don’t - there’s the same, and various degrees of difference) then how can that possibly apply to a left/right speaker with even horizontal coverage and a center with quite uneven horizontal coverage? That just seems notably poorly thought out to me.

Timbre matching is a regular term for people who are into this. I’m shocked that you are pursuing this further.

The Revel Ultima2 line is discontinued. Plus their original surround speaker (Gem2) was a patch job and do not match the other speakers in the ultima2 line aesthetically. You can look this up if you feel like.

I have 2 systems where my much lower end man cave’s 5.1 system is more immersive than my main system because all of my speakers are from the Revel Concerta line (F12, C12 and S12) with the JL F113 sub. Versus my family room where my Salon2, Voice2 are paired with mismatching F12 for surround (yes I have 2 pair). The sound is close but I can tell the difference when sound pans from front and back and it’s not ideal. I thought about getting a pair of studio2 for the surrounds but there really isn’t much room behind the couch so having wall mounted speakers would be better. Still, if I stick with these speakers, since my son is graduating from college in the spring that drained me for over $200k, I should be able to pick up a pair of studio2 for about $6k used and rearrange my sectional. My wife should understand that we have some “extra cash flow” after January.

This is the reason why I would consider parting with my beloved Revel salon2 and the near matching voice2. Did you know that the voice2 is a 3-way speaker that has the same drivers as the studio2 and actually doesn’t have the same performance as the salon2 which is a 4 way speaker? I know this because that’s what’s in my family room and I hear it daily. It’s not theory. Having studio2 for the fronts would actually make for a better surround sound system.

Your assertion that the Perlisten center doesn’t match their other speakers is literally preposterous. If you have actually watched a movie with the Perlisten system, there is no way you would actually be claiming this. It’s why I ignored this nonsensical comment the first time but you said it again. The Perlisten center channel has the same DPC array as their mains and should actually match better than what I have. All horizontal centers are a compromise…but my system is in my family room and the center is under my LG 83G4. I can’t do same 3 speakers across…figured I’d throw this in, just in case you make other weird assumptions .

 

[farakji]

I’ve been following ASR for some time and wanted to share my experience with the REVEL Salon2. I got my Salon2 based on the many positive mentions and recommendations I read from Amir and many other ASR members, and looking back I regret the years I spent chasing other speakers and setups.

Even in a real-world untreated room the Salon2 delivers the best sound quality I have ever experienced.
For me it is mainly for music listening so I cannot comment on movie setups. Obviously what is ideal depends on your purpose, room, and preference.

I have included a REW frequency response measurement of left and right channels at my listening position. The mains are integrated with JL Fathom f113v2 subs.
Though not perfect it still sounds best for my liking.
I have tried many speakers in my room, and I have also heard others, including Magico M3, in dealers’ and friends’ well-treated rooms, and I have never felt more satisfied than with my current setup.

For me the Salon2 is still the reference in a real-world room, delivering music more convincingly than any other system I have experienced.

 

[Lsc]

I’ve been following ASR for some time and wanted to share my experience with the REVEL Salon2. I got my Salon2 based on the many positive mentions and recommendations I read from Amir and many other ASR members, and looking back I regret the years I spent chasing other speakers and setups.

Even in a real-world untreated room the Salon2 delivers the best sound quality I have ever experienced.
For me it is mainly for music listening so I cannot comment on movie setups. Obviously what is ideal depends on your purpose, room, and preference.

I have included a REW frequency response measurement of left and right channels at my listening position. The mains are integrated with JL Fathom f113v2 subs.
Though not perfect it still sounds best for my liking.
I have tried many speakers in my room, and I have also heard others, including Magico M3, in dealers’ and friends’ well-treated rooms, and I have never felt more satisfied than with my current setup.

For me the Salon2 is still the reference in a real-world room, delivering music more convincingly than any other system I have experienced.

Agreed that the salon2 especially when integrated with the JL subs using the CR-1, probably is good enough for 99% of the people out there. I have something similar. Bass is thundering and the never fatiguing smooth but detailed sound…can just listen for hours and hours.

But when we are talking about SOTA how does the salon2s compare with ultra expensive speakers like the Magico M7 or even the updated Perlisten S7 black edition? How about the new active speakers that can do things that passive speakers are unable to

The salon2 was years ahead of its time when it first came out and the design is so sound, that it’s still relevant today but not sure about state of the art. And while not SOTA, the salon2 is tough to replace as it does so many things right and looks great in the process.

 

[MarkS]

As I pointed out earlier, measurements of the Salon 2 are nowhere close to SOTA.

Y'all are fully entitled to your subjective opinions of its sound, but some of us still believe that this is Audio Science Review.

 

[Lsc]

As I pointed out earlier, measurements of the Salon 2 are nowhere close to SOTA.

Y'all are fully entitled to your subjective opinions of its sound, but some of us still believe that this is Audio Science Review.

I saw an interview with Alon Wolf (owner of Magico) about measurements. He said yes measurements are a good starting point, meaning there are other factors beyond the spins. I see a lot of knowing very little / regurgitation the same comments with respect to the science and acting like they have doctorates in acoustic engineering.

I own salons and just from a logical perspective given its age, I don’t think it’s SOTA, don’t even have to go into the measurements.

So since I agree with you, instead of talking about why the salon2 is not SOTA, what are some examples of speakers that qualify as such? What’s it gonna cost me?