Is The Revel Ultima Salon2 STILL the State Of The Art?

[Lsc]

We're straying a bit far from the thread's focus (what's the sota loudspeaker?)

I wonder how ART would play with my dutch & dutch 8Cs, never thought about it tbh. I used REW on its own to set them up.

The 8C feels more SOTA even though it’s been a few years since its introduction. Such a satisfying sound and all you need is a streamer or Mac (in my case). I’d love to get a pair of those.

 

[Oddball]

Have you had a chance to audition a full range cardioid system?

Agree on DSP benefits in general, but I am not convinced ART is the end all be all solution that it’s made out to be by some. Maybe in certain applications. And full range cardioid would not achieve same results as ART? Do you have measurements to back up that claim?

Regardless, my system will be DSP active, full range cardioid, variable directivity, AND ART as the polishing touch. That might be considered SOTA

I did. Nothing really like ART. ART will just make the best of what you have. In my system which is quite oversized it does not really matter what I do in ART, it just comes with great response every time. Tweaking is kind of pointless as it ends up in same great place every time. I was thinking of full active, but now fully passive ART is saving my money big time.

 

[BlackTalon]

It's subjective -- and corny -- but I immediately get a smile on my face whenever I start listening to the Salon2s. Background level, full-on rocking, and all volume levels in between. If it wasn't for the clearance sales there is no way I would have bought them. Even at USD $12k they were not remotely inexpensive. But I have zero regrets.

And the icing on the cake is our two cats enjoy sitting on top of them. So it's like getting two free cat trees.

 

[MattHooper]

It's subjective -- and corny -- but I immediately get a smile on my face whenever I start listening to the Salon2s. Background level, full-on rocking, and all volume levels in between. It it wasn't for the clearance sales there is no way I would have bought them. Even at USD $12k they were not remotely inexpensive. But I have zero regrets.

Love hearing from somebody so enthusiastic about their system! (my current speakers are not SOTA, but like you, they were beyond my means if bought new and I acquired a mint showroom repair for much less. I pinch myself with glee each time, I realize I own these things).

And the icing on the cake is our two cats enjoy sitting on top of them.

Sometimes I think the Internet exists solely to provide me endless different reasons not to own cats

 

[Curvature]

Preference scores indicate that it is still near the top and, since the preference scores are based on human fundamentals, this speaker will likely be that way forever with conventional music formats. Perhaps the future will introduce new formats with very specific speaker requirements, or some other kind of technological shift that will render such speakers no longer relevant.

 

[Nondemo01]

I'm no expert, but if we stick to AI and practical law, State-Of-The-Art means the highest level of development achieved at a particular moment in time. So I offer that at the time, yes, the Salon 2 were SOTA in that the cabinet is designed to minimize cabinet resonances and diffraction, front baffle, and beryllium tweeter with titanium inverted dome drivers. I'd say they probably are no longer SOTA by that standard. The new "new" would be Perlisten's DPC waveguide on their mid/high drivers. Having heard both, I prefer the look of the Salon 2 but the dynamic range of the Perlisten is kinda unmatched and their S7t Black Edition is AH-MAZING. Near perfect on and off axis response, minuscule compression throughout the audio band, incredible tolerances on parts, and the build quality (40mm billet aluminum) is like nothing I've ever seen. Getting their new D8i with a pair would be probably the best speakers you could get at any price. My $.02 anyway. (I mean, they're no B&O Beolab 90 at over $200K and won't be confused for a sculpture but what do I know.)

 

[Luvchampagne]

I'm referring to the spinorama-derived preference score: https://www.spinorama.org/scores.ht...t=score&count=1000&shape=floorstanders&page=1

Which of course is not the whole story, but if we're talking about one speaker edging another out in raw technical performance, it's at least a worthwhile data point for the discussion.

I do think the LS60 counts as more "SOTA" than the Salon 2 in terms of techniques deployed, but then so do Ascilab speakers and maybe even the ever-on-the-horizon Purifi SPK 16, but none of those will beat the Salon 2 in total performance, they're designed as smaller speakers with less output.

We will have to see when the large bass-stand cardioid Ascilab speakers hit the market, I would not be surprised if they beat the Salon 2 both technically and all-around subjectively. As I understand it, it's going to be a comparably powerful full-range-ish speaker, very likely with even better directivity, but also cardioid.

e: Maybe Kii 3 with BXT?

Many good points made. Here's my $0.02

I own the Salon2 and for my use case, over 10,000 cu. ft. space open room with 18 ft ceilings, they are wonderful. The vertical directivity is everything the measurements state and more in real life. The output is a great example of why certain full range tower speakers are much more than a great monitor with subs.
I also have been fortunate to spend multiple listening sessions at Ascilabs. I've listened to all of the models including the C8C and the bass stand version with Cardioid. They are incredible speakers but even these don't have the same output as the Salon2. Having said that, I'm 100% buying the C8C sans bass stands.

I was not able to properly compare the Salon2 to the AsciLabs speakers so obvious sighted bias as well as completely different rooms and setups. Having said that, imho, the vertical directivity is very good but not at the level of Salon2.

 

[FrantzM]

Very good as that was the goal. While my salon2 is not SOTA the bass in my system using these 3 subs feels more SOTA even though these subs are not spring chickens either.

I

IMHO the Salon 2 still qualify as a SOTA in speaker design. With 3 (aerious)subs ? More so . I only objected to your use of “cardioid”.. Turning a subwoofer to face a wall doesn't transform its radiation pattern from omni (In the lows) to cardioid...

 

[Luvchampagne]

By today's standard the Salon 2 is good but not great IMO.

Measurements for speaker Revel Ultima2 Salon2

www.spinorama.org

Just compare what a modern and reasonably priced passive floorstander does.

Measurements for speaker Ascend Acoustics ELX Ribbon Tower

www.spinorama.org

The same research was even better applied and perfected with modern designs. The research was top notch, resulted in the best direction going forward. We just have better implementations now.

Not disagreeing with your outcome but doesn't your post make assumptions that measurements are everything? To say that the Salon2 in 2025 is good but not great is an interesting opinion. Have you heard the Salon2? Next to any of the speakers you mentioned?

 

[Purité Audio]

I remember some years ago we took a pair in part-ex for some Grimm LS1’s they sounded pretty even to me.
Keith

 

[Oddball]

I really have no recent experience between active and passive with ART. While some active designs are obviously advantageous and was drooling all over them, just interested in how they all add up? As much as I was in favour of actives, since I tried ART, I don't really see any advantage even if Kii with bass modules.

If fact, setting up ART is almost as easy as taking a candy from a baby....Pls correct me if I am wrong.

 

[hvbias]

I heard D&D 8C, Kii 3 BXT, Blade Meta 2, 8361A (two different occasions), a custom Klipsch K402 setup, and Salon 2 within the last 10 years. They remained a superb speaker with unoffensive aesthetics. Would I buy one in 2025- definitely not, the Blade Meta 2 and Kii 3 BXT (not in mastering mode, but the more neutral mode) were better.

kef's blade will take those honours now and i don't really see why not.

outstanding directivity, compression is not an issue at all, basically full range, top notch multitone distortion performance as well and the coaxial design allows for vertical movement without losing much.

But honestly, I don't see why something like the Neumann KH420G, Genelec 8361A or even any other lower end monitors from these brands/Ascilab speakers paired with subwoofers would not result in a "state of the art" listening experience.

I personally think the Salon2 was great for its time but we've come a long way. We can't exactly "beat" the Salon2, it was a great speaker, we can just either lower the price or add feature or two here and there. The KEF has the coaxial driver allowing vertical freedom, neumann and genelecs are active and far cheaper and the kii three/d&d 8c are cardioid so their full range response will actually be beneficial.

Wonder how a KEF Reference 1 Meta with 2-4 subs would compare to a Salon2 in terms of blind listening tests. Would the stronger yet smoother low end of the former pairing not win out? If yes, then what exactly makes a speaker SOTA? Its own merits or what it can do with a sub that would result in a SOTA listening experience?

8361A are tonally excellent speakers (so good I will be buying 8331A unheard, which I never do for anything expensive) but with two different Genelec subwoofers they still sound like you're listening to monitor speakers. They simply don't have the disappearing/large sound of the Blade, Kii 3 BXT or even Salon 2. I brought this up before in the forum and some people solve this with multichannel and up mixing software to have the rear Genelecs also surround you with music. IMO this is a band-aid solution and not good for one of the main genres I listen to.

 

[kyuu]

I heard D&D 8C, Kii 3 BXT, Blade Meta 2, 8361A (two different occasions), a custom Klipsch K402 setup, and Salon 2 within the last 10 years.

In what setting(s)?

 

[hvbias]

In what setting(s)?

Dealers, owners, or studios. MBL 101 is the last of what I need to hear before making my decision.

 

[kyuu]

Dealers, owners, or studios. MBL 101 is the last of what I need to hear before making my decision.

Were both of your experiences with the 8361a in studio settings?

 

[hvbias]

Were both of your experiences with the 8361a in studio settings?

One of them was, it was a very good setup without a huge mixing board between the speakers. A testament to Genelec's GLM setup was that they sounded pretty much the same in two different rooms with two different Genelec subwoofers. I'd actually say the same with the owner's Blade Meta 2 and the time I heard them at an audio show, very even, wide bandwidth, incredible soundstage width and depth even when sitting off axis.

 

[Luvchampagne]

I heard D&D 8C, Kii 3 BXT, Blade Meta 2, 8361A (two different occasions), a custom Klipsch K402 setup, and Salon 2 within the last 10 years. They remained a superb speaker with unoffensive aesthetics. Would I buy one in 2025- definitely not, the Blade Meta 2 and Kii 3 BXT (not in mastering mode, but the more neutral mode) were better.

Just curious, at USD$8K for an excellent used pair of Salon2, you would pay 3x or more for Blade Meta 2 and Kii 3 BXT or is that cost not factored in?

Just curious, at USD$8K for an excellent used pair of Salon2, you would pay 3x or more for Blade Meta 2 and Kii 3 BXT or is that cost not factored in?

 

[Lsc]

IMHO the Salon 2 still qualify as a SOTA in speaker design. With 3 (aerious)subs ? More so . I only objected to your use of “cardioid”.. Turning a subwoofer to face a wall doesn't transform its radiation pattern from omni (In the lows) to cardioid...

lol. You have a point there…so funny. I gotta see how cardioid speakers handle bass. Maybe there is no way.

 

[Lsc]

I did. Nothing really like ART. ART will just make the best of what you have. In my system which is quite oversized it does not really matter what I do in ART, it just comes with great response every time. Tweaking is kind of pointless as it ends up in same great place every time. I was thinking of full active, but now fully passive ART is saving my money big time.

Are you talking about Dirac ART? If so how many speakers are involved in the setup.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Can you share your impressions of the 8cs vs other speakers you've had? How do you find the roomeq? Do you use the Bacch plugin?

They're the best sounding speakers I've ever heard, but I admit I haven't heard the Revels or any other speakers priced higher (where I live) than the D&Ds. I love REW, it's amazing. Can't fix all room problems, but D&D + REW minimized my room problems to a degree I didn't think was possible without physical treatments. I don't use the Bacch plugin, sorry.