IME cardioid ( through the mid-range) does sound that bit clearer, but as you say if you can soffit mount, although I haven’t seen any soffit mounted speakers in domestic rooms ever.I'm not sure I would want to hinge a "SOTA" label on cardioid bass. It has obvious benefits, of course, but it also has downsides. Besides, if you stick the speaker in the wall then you limit bass directivity to plus-or-minus 90-degrees down to zero Hertz, so obviously a SOTA speaker has to be in-wall.
Just a minor correction, the Salon2s were introduced in 2007. The Stereophile review that's so often quoted was published in 2008:
Not sure I would put cardioid bass as a requirements. As I posted in this thread, it is a solution to a problem but not a requirmetn for good bass repoduction. In my book best bass requires multiple subs and DSP.
I hear it every day along with the voice2 center channel and it looks and sounds very good.
What are your references?
State of the art by its very definition rules out old designs that have been replaced by newer ones utilizing the latest technology.As has been brought up in the thread already, the very criteria for SOTA itself may be difficult to pin down, especially given the huge variety of different loudspeaker designs, and use cases as well.
My view is that most of what is significant in terms of speaker performance has been around for a long time (including from all sorts of passive designs), and from there it’s been more doing “ nips and tucks” in regard to speaker performance, rather than true revelations.
My own nomination would be something of a “ personal SOTA loudspeaker” influenced largely by my own experiences.
And the MBL Radialstrahler comes to my mind. They may not be SOTA in terms of all the measurement criteria people might reference in this thread. But in my own experience, they are SOTA in terms of creating the sense of “ real instruments and voices occurring in real acoustic space.”
(Again I certainly recognize that other listeners have had poor listening experiences with those speakers, whether that has to do with poor set ups at shows or just their own subjective criteria or whatever. That’s one reason I’m talking in personal terms).
I’ll never forget first encountering the MBL 101D omnis at a CES. They blew my mind. For me, they made every other loudspeaker at the show no matter how ambitious sounds like “Recordings being squeezed out of woofers and tweeters.” This just seemed more like instruments occurring in real space.
That continued when I heard a well set up pair in the home of a TAS reviewer - again the most realistic playback I’d ever heard. And continued when I had more chances through the years to audition the MBLs.
When I was lucky enough to acquire my modest stand mounted MBLs and I did some of my standard live versus reproduce comparisons, I was amazed not just the spatial presentation but the way the MBLs managed to accurately reproduce the timbre and complexity of instruments like my acoustic guitar and my son’s saxophone, when directly compared to the real thing being played.
As I’ve mentioned before I did manage to hear the flagship MBL X-Treme in a large dedicated showroom… I got to have time all alone with them for an hour or two playing whatever tracks I wanted to check out.
And while I could tell they weren’t perfectly dialled in, nonetheless what they could do was absolutely spectacular. The sensation of having full-sized bands just beamed down to play in front of me, three dimensionally, with utter natural clarity was something I won’t forget. (And especially the scale and realism they brought to lots of my favourite test tracks).
I haven’t been able to hear the KEF blades yet, but I’ve heard the LS60s and briefly have heard stand mounted Reference models (and LS50s), to get the flavour of what they are doing. Good speakers? Sure. Game changing? Not to my ears. Mostly just another good speaker.
I auditioned the Kii Audio Three BXT system, which some have put forth as one of the forefront active speakers. Did it sound good? Very.
I could hear a pleasing evenness in its bass response and overall frequency response. But ironing out some wiggles here and there for me wasn’t remotely enough to hear it as game changing at all. It was another good sounding speaker. I preferred the sound of some classic Spendors in direct comparison . (and I actually prefer the sound I get at home over it).
But even the Kii BXT had nothing whatsoever on the impact the MBL speakers had on me (especially against the scale and realism of the MBL X-Tremes), in terms of how the MBLs distinguish themselves from other speaker designs, and in a direction achieving one of the hardest things to achieve - sonic realism.
YMMV…
(cue comment from the usual suspect… and then we can get on talking about the Salon2 and other speakers)
Genelec 8260, matching subs and GLM were the real eye-opener, we had been selling some expensive horn nonsense before then, Kii 3, followed quite quickly by D&D, tried the more traditional Grimms, but the contemporary gear offers so many advantages for domestic rooms.
An interesting comment and a not often written about requirement of a stereo system, for some people at least.
… I would also add full range cardioid not just for “specific” situations, it is for all situations. I can’t listen to anything else anymore.
I should be more specific regarding my comments on cardioid … while certainly cardioid mids offer improvement vs monopole, for me the real eye opener and game changer has been cardioid bass. And again being specific, I mean cardioid down to ~40Hz (then from there transition to monopole, no benefit to cardioid below 40Hz). There are very few manufacturers doing this, and even fewer folks that have actually heard it. So, until you do, best to hold your judgement
I fully agree with you, after I too went through almost 5-year audio exploration journey reaching "my" latest summit of DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo setup in my acoustic environments (ref. #931 on my project thread).Not sure I would put cardioid bass as a requirements. As I posted in this thread, it is a solution to a problem but not a requirmetn for good bass repoduction. In my book best bass requires multiple subs and DSP.
As for phase alignment you can't have it in a passive design..
Same with Perfect Pulse response.
DRC can be done outside the (speaker) box
At thend, the best speaker all things being equal would be an active design .. IN my case I am reluctant with active... The paradox is that I have active speakers throughout my system... but at their price, I was easily able to procure spares, just sitting around in their boxes.
Thanks for the correction, edited.Just a minor correction, the Salon2s were introduced in 2007. The Stereophile review that's so often quoted was published in 2008:
Revel Ultima Salon2 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
Back in March 1998, Revel's Ultima Salon1 floorstanding loudspeaker generated quite a stir at Stereophile (Vol.22 No.3). Our reviewers were impressed by its seven designed-from-scratch drive-units, its ultramodern enclosure with curved rosewood side panels, exposed front tweeter and midrange...www.stereophile.com
I purchased my Salon2 pair in 2010. I've found them to be very sensitive to appropriate placement, but with just the right inching around, and a good measurement tool to gauge the results (I used OmniMic 2), they can be very compelling. With recordings made with a Blumlein Pair, stereo imaging can be quite vivid.
Have you had a chance to audition a full range cardioid system?
And again being specific, I mean cardioid down to ~40Hz (then from there transition to monopole, no benefit to cardioid below 40Hz). There are very few manufacturers doing this, and even fewer folks that have actually heard it. So, until you do, best to hold your judgement
….)
