Is The Revel Ultima Salon2 STILL the State Of The Art?

[traind]

No, and I'm not even disagreeing--I have no idea!
But I expect evidence for a SOTA claim in 2025 to be more recent than two popes ago

I understand what you are saying and it makes sense that there would be some advancement, even if small, in SOTA since then. But the advancements might have been so small that they aren't significantly audible to the average person in the average room.

Perhaps the biggest advancement since then has been in bringing measured speaker excellence down far lower on the price curve rather than easily audible, outright high end speaker design improvements. That along with significant advancements in dsp that, relatively cheaply, improve sound for the average user and average room.

And ASR has played a significant role in highlighting that measured improvement to more designers and manufacturers. And consumers too, of course.

 

[Lsc]

I just watched Hans Zimmer Live in Prague last night and I may want to walk back my comments about the salon2 not being SOTA due to how old it is. Maybe not SOTA in driver and cabinet tech but sound quality wise, it’s as good as anything I’ve heard. Of course the Gothams help with the seamless full range sound. Insanely dynamic, room filing sound.

Kind of feel like I have a poor man’s Sonus Faber Suprema. Maybe they’ll have it at Axpona in 2026 so I can hear how the Suprema sounds.

For the current used price of the salon2, it’s gotta be up there in terms of near end game sound for the $.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I understand what you are saying and it makes sense that there would be some advancement, even if small, in SOTA since then. But the advancements might have been so small that they aren't significantly audible to the average person in the average room.

I'm not saying what you say I'm saying.

My point is not that SOTA should have advanced, but that evidence for SOTA should be recent. Here's an analogy: In 2013, a basketball analyst writes glowing praise of LeBron James, calling him the best in the world. In 2025 someone asks who the best basketball player in the world is. I post a that 2013 video in support of my belief that LeBron James is the best in the world.
I think you'll agree that my video post from 2013 is not useful in evaluating the best basketball player in the world in 2025.

 

[amirm]

My point is not that SOTA should have advanced, but that evidence for SOTA should be recent.

There is no yearly contest for such things for you to ask for that. Someone demanded to know how Salon 2 can be SOTA and I gave one unique data point from a reviewer who pays attention to objective and subjective performance. I could have provided my own data having listened to hundreds of speakers since then but figured that testimonial is more objective.

Here's an analogy: In 2013, a basketball analyst writes glowing praise of LeBron James, calling him the best in the world. In 2025 someone asks who the best basketball player in the world is. I post a that 2013 video in support of my belief that LeBron James is the best in the world.

I don't follow sports but I suspect if LeBron had not aged one day since 2013, he would still be at the top of his game today. You make it sound like the last time Salon 2 was produced was 2013 so we are talking about old and aging speaker....

 

[Lsc]

The better analogy is that LeBron up until last year was considered one of the best players in basketball - he is now over 40 years of age. The salon2 is nearly 20 years old and there are arguments that it’s still SOTA. That’s some high praise for these very good sounding speakers. I don’t know why but I don’t find someone saying the salon2 is no longer SOTA offensive at all. Just seems logical.

But, I’ll take em over a pair of potentially better measuring sota diy bookshelves on preorder anyday. I had to put the sota in lower case here. While I still don’t find this offensive, I do question if everyone here have heard the salon2 and know how good of a speaker it is.

 

[Looneybomber]

I have not read every post, so I hope this hasn’t been asked already.

Was the Salon 2 SOTA when it came out?

To be state of the art according to Webster, “the level of development (as of a device, procedure, process, technique, or science) reached at any particular time usually as a result of modern methods”

The Salon2,

- used a contoured baffle to mitigate baffle diffraction. That was seen about 15 years prior and to a more extreme degree in the B&W Nautilus.

- used a constrained layer damping technique with the enclosure which was used in the 80’s by Avalon Acoustics.

- did not use exotic (SOTA?) materials like beryllium as seen by Pioneer circa 1983 in their ribbon tweeter and dome mid in the S9500.

My argument is not that the Salon 2 isn’t good/great, I am instead looking at the speaker from a different perspective. I question if the speaker really is SOTA because much of the technology/techniques used were decades old and not “modern” by Webster’s definition. The Salon 2 used tried-and-true tech that the engineers knew increased performance instead of new, never-before-seen tech. With that in mind, can the speaker still be considered SOTA?

 

[a4eaudio]

What if: an engineer develops a more modern, never-before-seen technology that theoretically performs better, but for sure allows the commercial speaker company to talk about it in the marketing material and charge a higher price. But it performs no better in blind listening tests - has SOTA changed? Much of this thread seems to equate "SOTA" to "most recent fad".

 

[Looneybomber]

@a4eaudio I believe SOTA can change/evolve even if a performance metric remains the same or declines. There are examples of each from various industries.

What I just mentioned could be considered a discussion of SOTA vs pinnacle/acme of performance. That is, a discussion focused more on vocabulary - how things are labeled instead of technology. I think the technology is what the spirit of this post is about and not vocabulary.

 

[a4eaudio]

...I think the technology is what the spirit of this post is about and not vocabulary.

We don't need to guess, we can just read post #1 by the thread starter.

________________
This question arose when I recently went down a rabbit hole of reading a bunch of subjective reviews of the Salon2...

...we know that at least at the time they were in introduced the Salon2 where essentially state of the art in terms of their measurements (and in blind test ratings)...

With the Salon2 reviews, the convergence seemed especially striking. All essentially concluded it was a new state of the art. The common themes were: an almost absolute sense of neutrality and lack of colouration, nothing in the frequency response, sounding forward or scooped out, and the benefits this had for the reproduction of all sorts of instruments invoices. A total seamlessness of sound - the many drivers sounding totally integrated. They talked about sound being totally coherent to a degree most had not heard before...

And that brings me to the question of the thread:

Is The Revel Ultima Salon2 STILL the State Of The Art?

I’m sure some can point to certain loudspeakers that better the Salon2’s measurements in some regards. Would anybody nominate another loudspeaker that, in total, you feel would surpass the performance of the Salon2
_________________

If you want to measure performance by how well the speaker withstands a fall from 20 ft, then carbon fiber cabinets may be SOTA. But speaker performance is normally measured by how they sound.

 

[Buckchester]

I have not read every post, so I hope this hasn’t been asked already.

Was the Salon 2 SOTA when it came out?

To be state of the art according to Webster, “the level of development (as of a device, procedure, process, technique, or science) reached at any particular time usually as a result of modern methods”

The Salon2,

- used a contoured baffle to mitigate baffle diffraction. That was seen about 15 years prior and to a more extreme degree in the B&W Nautilus.

- used a constrained layer damping technique with the enclosure which was used in the 80’s by Avalon Acoustics.

- did not use exotic (SOTA?) materials like beryllium as seen by Pioneer circa 1983 in their ribbon tweeter and dome mid in the S9500.

My argument is not that the Salon 2 isn’t good/great, I am instead looking at the speaker from a different perspective. I question if the speaker really is SOTA because much of the technology/techniques used were decades old and not “modern” by Webster’s definition. The Salon 2 used tried-and-true tech that the engineers knew increased performance instead of new, never-before-seen tech. With that in mind, can the speaker still be considered SOTA?

But are loudspeakers getting better as time goes on due to new technologies? Doesn’t seem that way to me. It’s a mature industry. Quality I think is more based on implementation.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

New is better. 2000 year old Roman roads vs 3 year old Interstate. 69 in Indiana is new. Started sinking in limestone within a year. Figured out limestone and salt don’t mix.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

But are loudspeakers getting better as time goes on due to new technologies?

Yes, but those technologies are on the computer-aided design/modeling and measuring sides, not the construction materials.

 

[Lsc]

Unfortunately a lot of the “advancements” doesn’t necessarily equate to better sound in this crazy world of high end audio. That’s what makes things difficult to decipher. What is actually science vs. audio jewelry to justify a now common place six figure price tag for “SOTA” speakers.

And what makes things even more difficult is lack of ability to compare speakers, especially at the expensive end. Even a sighted comparison where you can get some sort of an idea would be nice.

Looking at measurements and theory is nice but without actually listening, there are many aspects of the speaker sound that’s not really known.

 

[Purité Audio]

The better the measurements the more transparent the sound, that has been my experience.
Keith

 

[MKR]

The better the measurements the more transparent the sound, that has been my experience.
Keith

Can’t disagree with you Keith… but, have you ever heard the Salon 2?

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes took a pair in part-ex against some Grimm’s .
Keith

 

[MKR]

Yes took a pair in part-ex against some Grimm’s .
Keith

And? That seems a poor trade to me

 

[Purité Audio]

I thought they were pretty decent , there had been some chicanery from the UK Harman distributor, the customer had bought ‘new’ but they clearly weren’t he just wanted to sell them and liked the LS1’s more than the 8Cs that i also took to him.
Keith

 

[MKR]

I thought they were pretty decent , there had been some chicanery from the UK Harman distributor, the customer had bought ‘new’ but they clearly weren’t he just wanted to sell them and liked the LS1’s more than the 8Cs that i also took to him.
Keith

Never heard anyone describe the Salon 2s as “pretty decent”. Were they broken?

As to preferring the LS1s to Salon 2s and the 8Cs, well, to each there own, but not sure I could ever be friends with that guy LOL

 

[Purité Audio]

Ironically the UK distributor had sent the guy a new pair ( an actual new pair) of Salon’s and the feet on those were broken, in transit I suppose.
All a bit of a mess.
Harman distribution in the UK was always dreadful.
Keith