Exactly: even with medium quality and smoothed out, it is still less flat then the current SOTA competition with flatter curves even with more data points.
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Is The Revel Ultima Salon2 STILL the State Of The Art?
- Thread starter MattHooper
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TurtlePaul
Major Contributor
Another question for everyone: do you consider SOTA to be tonality and bass extension alone (Olive score) or does a SOTA system also need good 100 dB+ (or 110 dB+?) performance?
For me, speakers like the Salon 2, Blade 1 Meta and F328Be can be SOTA but speakers like the Kef L60 are too small to be in the conversation.
For me, speakers like the Salon 2, Blade 1 Meta and F328Be can be SOTA but speakers like the Kef L60 are too small to be in the conversation.
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MattHooper
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Speaking of state of the art, please see here:
AsciLab speakers are about to launch
Is there a grill cover for the C8C? And any indication of whether the S8C will be worth double the cost/measure significantly better for having the purifi drivers?
Those are really impressive measurements wow!!! I’d really like to give a listen to those loudspeakers.
This gets me wondering about the significance of measurements when we start getting that good. Along the same lines of; at some point solid state amplifiers started measuring neutral enough that in any practical sense, there’s no more audible benefit.
Where do we hit that when it comes to loudspeakers?
Is this at that point or getting close?
How close was the Revel Salon2?
And then we get into the question of “ OK if the differences are still audible… how significant are they subjectively?”
From my own perspective: since I view solid state amplification as essentially a solved problem and properly deployed with a loud loudspeaker they’re all going to sound essentially the same, that led me to being interested in tube amplifiers, because there was at least the prospect of hearing something different and perhaps interesting or engaging (and for me that’s how things worked out).
So when I think of the measurements of the above loudspeakers and what that would sound like versus maybe a Ravel or Neumann or whatever… is this approaching (for me at least) “ so what?” levels of Sonic improvements? Could be I suppose.
Re-reading the title of the post:
It is not "The" SOTA. There are better speakers. It may still be SOTA, not THE SOTA.
Still would love to have a pair of those "Not-The SOTA" speakers .. at a great price despite the facts that:
They are no longer made
it has been 15 years, thus there has to be better speakers.
Even the 328 Be could be better in some regard, Kef Blade is better .. or Active Genelec 8361B or Neuman KH 420 or Magico M7 or ... [fill the blanks] ... I
I am certain a pair will have me grinning for a few decades ...
It is not "The" SOTA. There are better speakers. It may still be SOTA, not THE SOTA.
Still would love to have a pair of those "Not-The SOTA" speakers .. at a great price despite the facts that:
They are no longer made
it has been 15 years, thus there has to be better speakers.
Even the 328 Be could be better in some regard, Kef Blade is better .. or Active Genelec 8361B or Neuman KH 420 or Magico M7 or ... [fill the blanks] ... I
I am certain a pair will have me grinning for a few decades ...
jamescarter1982
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i had a question about these speakers . a quick look and it seems these older high end revel speakers seem like good value used , but are replacement drivers available In case of a failure ? this would definitely be a concern for me at the £4k I saw a revel salon i believe it was for sale . I think this is part of why atc retain such high used prices
I have been told by an atc dealer that they will take in and service/ repair any of their most popular models however old they are . I guess thats a benefit of them remaining fairly unchanged for 30odd years .
I have been told by an atc dealer that they will take in and service/ repair any of their most popular models however old they are . I guess thats a benefit of them remaining fairly unchanged for 30odd years .
It’s definitely a concern but Revel most likely will have replacement parts for some time.
There are lots of other smaller companies many that are internet direct, I’d be way more concerned with those companies’ replacement parts after they are done with their production run.
Nondemo01
Active Member
Audio SCIENCE Review **INCLUDES** psychoacoustics or the scientific study of how humans PERCEIVE and interpret sound. Kills me when all we focus on is an anechoic frequency response on this site. But sure, Perlisten has measurements on their site of their speakers using their Klippel.
Without breaking the bank, the Audio First Design Cadentia 3 are truly the deal of the moment considering their performance-price ratio. The quality of the measurement data via Spinorama is high = reliable!
This is what I call a SOTA speakers @ $ 2500
www.spinorama.org
This is what I call a SOTA speakers @ $ 2500
Measurements for speaker Audio First Design Cadentia 3
www.spinorama.org
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Agreed.
As Amir measures and listens to more AsciLab loudspeakers, I wonder if a select pair will end up replacing his Revel Salon 2 loudspeakers.
The previous Kef Reference series 207/2 won Stereophile co-speaker of the year along with Revel Salon2 back in 2008. I think arguably the old Kef Reference series was just as state of the art as the Ultima 2 series back then, had curved cabinets for low diffraction and also more uniform dispersion characteristics with it's Uni-Q driver. Kef has some made improvements to their design whereas Revel is fallen a step now, but they have better HT output capabilities and more classy looking furniture grade finishes.
Without breaking the bank, the Audio First Design Cadentia 3 are truly the deal of the moment considering their performance-price ratio. The quality of the measurement data via Spinorama is high = reliable!
This is what I call a SOTA speakers @ $ 2500
Measurements for speaker Audio First Design Cadentia 3
How would you compare the Cadentia 3 to the March Audio Sointuva AWG? Seems like the finished speaker costs similar but the Sointuva is quite a bit smaller.
Measurements for speaker March Audio Sointuva AWG
www.spinorama.org
How would you compare the Cadentia 3 to the March Audio Sointuva AWG? Seems like the finished speaker costs similar but the Sointuva is quite a bit smaller.
Measurements for speaker March Audio Sointuva AWG
I would be more inclined to compare the Audio Sointuva AWG to the AudioFirstdesigns Fidelia, which both compete in the same two-way speaker category.
Measurements for speaker Audio First Design Fidelia
www.spinorama.org
I have a pair of Fidelia speakers at home coupled with an SVS 1000 Pro subwoofer. It's by far the best system I've had in the last 10 years, and I've owned speakers costing over $10,000. Erin considers the Fidelia speakers to be SOTA. I think it's hard to find better considering the performance-to-price ratio.
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I doubt it. One, I doubt he wants to carry them down from that upstairs loft. Two, I doubt the Ascilab are audibly better. Defining "SOTA" as "the flattest possible on-axis response" is silly, IMO. A speaker should be neutral, yes, but the difference between the Salon2 that is neutral if a bit wiggly and something like the Ascilab that hugs the line almost perfectly is marginal, at best, in terms of audible differences.
Do Salon 2 go as loud as JBL M2? Was there such a comparison in the famous shootout?
Harry @Audiofirstdesigns_Harry made a compact model of the Type 1425 (not commercialized); perhaps he will make similar full-size 2way one someday. Say with 2*12" or 2*10 midbass drivers. Basless (I am a proponent of designing a subwoofer system for a specific room). This should be loud\clean\uncompressed enough for most home stereo enthusiasts.
I would be more inclined to compare the Audio Sointuva AWG to the AudioFirstdesigns Fidelia, which both compete in the same two-way speaker category.
Measurements for speaker Audio First Design Fidelia
I have a pair of Fidelia speakers at home coupled with an SVS 1000 Pro subwoofer. It's by far the best system I've had in the last 10 years, and I've owned speakers costing over $10,000. Erin considers the Fidelia speakers to be SOTA. I think it's hard to find better considering the performance-to-price ratio.
My main concern is both designs seem a bit narrow in dispersion, especially in the treble. And people already complain that the Sointuva has poor vertical axis dispersion and having their head stuck in a proverbial vise listening to it when it comes to speaker height, and it looks like the Fidelia is even more challenged on the vertical plane.
Buckchester
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Yes there are speakers that have smoother spins than the Salon 2 but at that point is that increased smoothness audible enough to reliably distinguish and prefer in a double blind test? Maybe, depending on how much smoother another one is but I’m not so sure. I believe the Salon 2 is probably close to that point where smoother spins may not be that audible. I believe Floyd Toole has spoken of this before.
Have you listened to them? I can tell you that once properly adjusted and with the addition of acoustic correction, you will have speakers here that are absolutely pleasant to listen to.
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