Is The Revel Ultima Salon2 STILL the State Of The Art?

[MattHooper]

This question arose when I recently went down a rabbit hole of reading a bunch of subjective reviews of the Salon2, around when the speaker was introduced.

I got to thinking about the Salon2 when I saw a pair for sale (not that I was going to buy them), and I wondered this: technically, we know that at least at the time they were in introduced the Salon2 where essentially state of the art in terms of their measurements (and in blind test ratings).

I wondered how this translated into the reaction of the subjective audio press. Did the technical chops and blind test-driven design transmit in to what reviewers were going to hear under regular informal listening scenarios?

From what I saw, the answer would seem to be: Yes.

I read reviews of the Salon2 in Stereophile, The Absolute Sound, Soundstage, Positive Feedback.

Each review was over the moon enthusiastic about the Salon2.

One might say “ subjective reviews are always positive” which even if granted, it’s still the case that subjective reviews describe different speakers differently.

With the Salon2 reviews, the convergence seemed especially striking. All essentially concluded it was a new state of the art. The common themes were: an almost absolute sense of neutrality and lack of colouration, nothing in the frequency response, sounding forward or scooped out, and the benefits this had for the reproduction of all sorts of instruments invoices. A total seamlessness of sound - the many drivers sounding totally integrated. They talked about sound being totally coherent to a degree most had not heard before. Much enthusiasm about the high frequencies being virtually ideal - opened and airy with all the vividness and detail you could want but simultaneously smooth and natural sounding.

Stunning dynamic capabilities.

Fantastically deep and well controlled bass frequencies.

Superb “disappearing act” in terms of removing themselves as an apparent sources of a sound, and top of class soundstaging and precision in imaging. With unusually good sound off axis as well.

A common theme was that the reviewers had problems finding anything at all to nit pick - that the Salon2 seemed to check absolutely every single performance box. The overall impressions were of a loudspeaker that removed itself as a source of colouration from the reproduction chain to an unusual and possibly unprecedented degree in their experience.

So I found it interesting that the technical performance and design method did seem to translate from lab to out in the field subjective reviewer impressions, where there was very good convergence in describing the particular characteristics (or lack of) of this speaker.

And that brings me to the question of the thread:

Is The Revel Ultima Salon2 STILL the State Of The Art?

I’m sure some can point to certain loudspeakers that better the Salon2’s measurements in some regards. Would anybody nominate another loudspeaker that, in total, you feel would surpass the performance of the Salon2?

 

[kemmler3D]

If we go on measurements alone, and keep in mind a similar SPL capability, I think the speaker that comes to mind is the KEF Blade 2 Meta.

Technically even the LS60 beats the Salon 2 in preference score, but in terms of output I don't think you can really compare them.

This is a tricky question because you don't see a lot of ~$10-20K+ speakers coming out that are also technically competent and also get put on a Klippel.

A closely related question here is "How many 5-figure speakers are on the market that are even arguably worth the money" and it's not a long list, to my knowledge.

 

[MattHooper]

Technically even the LS60 beats the Salon 2 in preference score,

Could you explain what you mean by this preference score? Preference being subjective are we talking about the results of blind tests? Or is this some sort of inference from the measurements?

Yes, I agree it’s a tricky question which is part of the fun of asking. And also people here may be aware of data that speaks to the question.

 

[kemmler3D]

Could you explain what you mean by this preference score? Preference being subjective are we talking about the results of blind tests? Or is this some sort of inference from the measurements?

Yes, I agree it’s a tricky question which is part of the fun of asking. And also people here may be aware of data that speaks to the question.

I'm referring to the spinorama-derived preference score: https://www.spinorama.org/scores.ht...t=score&count=1000&shape=floorstanders&page=1

Which of course is not the whole story, but if we're talking about one speaker edging another out in raw technical performance, it's at least a worthwhile data point for the discussion.

I do think the LS60 counts as more "SOTA" than the Salon 2 in terms of techniques deployed, but then so do Ascilab speakers and maybe even the ever-on-the-horizon Purifi SPK 16, but none of those will beat the Salon 2 in total performance, they're designed as smaller speakers with less output.

We will have to see when the large bass-stand cardioid Ascilab speakers hit the market, I would not be surprised if they beat the Salon 2 both technically and all-around subjectively. As I understand it, it's going to be a comparably powerful full-range-ish speaker, very likely with even better directivity, but also cardioid.

e: Maybe Kii 3 with BXT?

 

[antisuck]

It can't have hurt the Salon 2 that (variances of personal taste aside) it managed to be a reasonably tasteful piece of high-end furniture, and looked (and was) expensive enough to warrant reviews in the high-end magazines without making itself utterly unattainable.

I'm also not at all sure the perfect storm of (mostly print) reviews can even happen in 2025/2026.

 

[MattHooper]

I wonder if we had good spins of some of the big Magico speakers, where they would end up.

Conceivably at least the big Magico 9 speakers, if they measured similarly to the Salon, might be a bit more “ state of the art” in terms of their size and the scale of sound they could reproduce.

 

[Ropeburn]

SoundStage! Measurements - Revel Ultima Salon2 Loudspeakers (12/2009)

That looks rather good indeed! Note the distinct lack of distortion sticking out. And zero compression at 90dB

All things combined, neutrality, dispersion, distortion, output capability, plus an arguably really nice finish (love the reddish veneer), no wonder people were raving about these.

Hell yeah.

State of the art today in absolute terms? Debatable. But certainly seems like a terrific speaker that sure as hell was worth its money back then and still is. You can buy a lot worse for any money and rarely better. Certainly a nice example of engineering excellence.

 

[eddantes]

Could you explain what you mean by this preference score? Preference being subjective are we talking about the results of blind tests? Or is this some sort of inference from the measurements?

Yes, I agree it’s a tricky question which is part of the fun of asking. And also people here may be aware of data that speaks to the question.

Over 10K posts here and you've never heard of the Olive Preferrence score? Wow. Good on ya!

 

[MattHooper]

SoundStage! Measurements - Revel Ultima Salon2 Loudspeakers (12/2009)

That looks rather good indeed! Note the distinct lack of distortion sticking out. And zero compression at 90dB

All things combined, neutrality, dispersion, distortion, output capability, plus an arguably really nice finish (love the reddish veneer), no wonder people were raving about these.

View attachment 494694
Hell yeah.

State of the art today in absolute terms? Debatable. But certainly seems like a terrific speaker that sure as hell was worth its money back then and still is. You can buy a lot worse for any money and rarely better. Certainly a nice example of engineering excellence.

Yup. Measures better than any of my speakers! And used it goes for close to what I paid for my current speakers, which is pretty amazing for state of the art!

In my case, they would be too big for my room visually, and I’m not a fan of the Revel look. I did audition the Performa F228Be speakers and found them to “ sound like they measure” in terms of neutrality coherence and overall smoothness. I didn’t find them a revelation though, and in informal listening, I still preferred the speakers that I bought (which are also a much better fit for my room).

I wonder how those Performa F228Be speakers would do compared to the Salon2 and blind testing.

 

[MattHooper]

Over 10K posts here and you've never heard of the Olive Preferrence score? Wow. Good on ya!

I do look at the measurements, I have seen mention of it in comments , but I never pay attention to that part. Those preference ratings (which are typically on ASR for loudspeakers I’m not interested in ) generally don’t interest me.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

SOTA is measurable, the Salon 2 is;. What are today's speakers (non Active), that surpass or approach the Salon 2 measurements? I sincerely do not know, but It seems to still shine after all these years...
Lusting after a pair.
Endgame.

 

[eddantes]

I do look at the measurements, I have seen mention of it in comments , but I never pay attention to that part. Those preference ratings (which are typically on ASR for loudspeakers I’m not interested in ) generally don’t interest me.

Well there's good science behind it. So ya might wanna root around a wee bit. While not quite the same as the normal suite of metrics used to judge speakers; the preferrence score is still informative.

 

[kyuu]

Don't know about surpassing necessarily, but I'd throw the Genelec 8361a into the mix as certainly competitive. You can get what look by all accounts to be "end game" speakers for $10k, including amplification, which is certainly something. Of course, the appearance can be a bit polarizing.

 

[Caldera]

The Revel Salon2 loudspeaker represents the culmination of four decades of research in sound reproduction by Dr. Floyd Toole, Dr. Sean Olive, and countless listeners who participated in double-blind acoustic tests. Introduced in 2008, it stands as an important milestone in the science of loudspeaker design and a benchmark for serious engineering in the field. For me, the Salon2 is the ultimate end-game speaker.

 

[Ropeburn]

Well there's good science behind it. So ya might wanna root around a wee bit. While not quite the same as the normal suite of metrics used to judge speakers; the preferrence score is still informative.

I don't find it very helpful either. A one-number score? I have several personal hard criteria for speakers that rules out quite some, and other things I don't care much about or could forgive easily if a model excels in other areas instead. When I'm interested in a speaker, I look at all the data anyway, it's part of the research fun. Sorting by score for example would be utterly useless.

 

[staticV3]

What are today's speakers (non Active), that surpass or approach the Salon 2 measurements?

Here's a good place to start looking: https://www.spinorama.org/?power=passive&sort=score&shape=floorstanders&priceMin=10

KEF, Perlisten, and Magico make passive floorstanders with more accurate response, both on- and off-axis.

 

[Todd k]

I’am no big science guy but I read ASR daily for the last 8 years. So glad to have found this place because it made me buy a pair of Salon2’s about 5 years ago. They were used an cost 9g’s. Best money I ever spent in audio. Thank you ASR. Reading these posts makes me swell with pride over my pusrchase. By the way they sound really goooooood.

 

[kemmler3D]

I don't find it very helpful either. A one-number score? I have several personal hard criteria for speakers that rules out quite some, and other things I don't care much about or could forgive easily if a model excels in other areas instead. When I'm interested in a speaker, I look at all the data anyway, it's part of the research fun. Sorting by score for example would be utterly useless.

In the case of the Salon, its development shares lineage with the concept of the preference score itself, so I would say it's a more-valid-than-normal metric to use if we want to talk about speakers that meet or beat the Salon 2 in performance. I think it also shows that the ingredients of preference score do add up to something.

Still, it's just one number and so ignores all other personal priorities (distortion, cardioid, SPL capability) that might otherwise guide a purchase. Agree it's not that useful in general, but in this particular discussion I don't think anything is worth talking about with a score below 6.0...

 

[Matias]

By today's standard the Salon 2 is good but not great IMO.

Measurements for speaker Revel Ultima2 Salon2

www.spinorama.org

Just compare what a modern and reasonably priced passive floorstander does.

Measurements for speaker Ascend Acoustics ELX Ribbon Tower

www.spinorama.org

The Revel Salon2 loudspeaker represents the culmination of four decades of research in sound reproduction by Dr. Floyd Toole, Dr. Sean Olive, and countless listeners who participated in double-blind acoustic tests. Introduced in 2009, it stands as an important milestone in the science of loudspeaker design and a benchmark for serious engineering in the field. For me, the Salon2 is the ultimate end-game speaker.

The same research was even better applied and perfected with modern designs. The research was top notch, resulted in the best direction going forward. We just have better implementations now.

 

[FrantzM]

Don't know about surpassing necessarily, but I'd throw the Genelec 8361a into the mix as certainly competitive. You can get what look by all accounts to be "end game" speakers for $10k, including amplification, which is certainly something. Of course, the appearance can be a bit polarizing.

Issue for me is repairability. I can get a driver or a crossover component for a passive speaker... if an active misbehave, where I am ... Kind of end of the game for at least a while ...