Is the entire audio industry a fraud?

[danadam]

4-6 inches is audible. Once you increase gain, 1 foot is audible.

Indeed this confirms the specs of 20dB at 10cm of Neumann.
But this means inaudible at 1 meter / 40 inch.

Such things should include time of the day What is inaudible at noon, may be audible at 2 AM.

 

[mhardy6647]

Such things should include time of the day What is inaudible at noon, may be audible at 2 AM.

Well, heck, Steve "Decware" Deckert told us all about that years ago!

DECWARE - Article on the Magic Listening Hour

A flagship audiophile website featuring the personality of audio guru Steve Deckert, with many articles on high fidelity and acoustics to read you can also find online forums, stereo classifieds and his line of Zen Triode tube gear

www.decware.com

 

[Spkrdctr]

This issue of so many monitors having audible hiss is IMHO unacceptable.
I have 90db sensitive JBLs driven by 30 yo Adcom powers amps and a Denon AVR in front, I can put my ear right against the tweeter and hear nothing, nadda, zilch. I really don't understand why some of
these active monitors should any any audible hiss. The only time I had any noise was years ago running VTL tube power amps, and then mostly when the input driver tubes got old.
I don't get it, these monitors aren't cheap and should have a better SNR that this. ???

Sal, you are expecting sanity and competence in a weird as can be audio world. The problem is that they sell well with hiss. If no one bought them and focus groups all said "They Hiss"! Then things would change, but if it sells with hiss, they don't care.

 

[egellings]

I keep reading that the new cable physics is Quantum. The way I figure it, if someone starts talking about quantum as relates to anything audio, its prudent to face the other direction and run as hard as you can.

That goes for quantum anything that is not about the actual physics subject.

 

[Killingbeans]

The hiss may be caused by the proximity of the electronics to the speakers (drive units) and some kind of interference.

Unlikely. Airborne interference would have to come from radiation powerful enough to cook your insides in order to inject the amount of energy needed to excite a speaker driver audibly.

Residual noise on the output of upstream gear, on the other hand, could very well be amplified and mistaken for being inherent to the speaker amp.

 

[rwortman]

Sal, you are expecting sanity and competence in a weird as can be audio world. The problem is that they sell well with hiss. If no one bought them and focus groups all said "They Hiss"! Then things would change, but if it sells with hiss, they don't care.

They are designed to be used by professionals in a studio doing a job. A bit of hiss when no music is playing is irrelevant to the job.

BTW My Tannoy Gold 7’s are silent until my ear is about 3 inches from the tweeter waveguide.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I'm selling Quantum cables and speakers out of my white van. I'm making some serious money. No return policy, once you buy it, its yours! Quantum for the win.....

 

[CleanSound]

So your proof of inferior electronics is inaudible hissing? What pro audio amps in studios (not sound reinforcement) have inferior specs ? You think you could hear the difference ?

When you buy a Ferrari, do you think you can drive 175mph on the highway? If not, why would anyone buy it?

Here is the class D IC used in the KH80: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh80dsp-teardown.24116/post-813461

This IC is not bad, but definitely not state of the art. And when compared to SOTA, it's indeed inferior.

You seem offended, so I will repeat once again, I am not bashing on these pro audio gear, I just brought the KH120 last week and I am happy with it. But being happy with it doesn't mean I can't criticize it for areas of improvement. Additionally, I have stated that pro audio have different priorities as home audio. So take a chill pill and relax, the Neumann are great and I have a pair and enjoying it!

 

[Sal1950]

Sal, you are expecting sanity and competence in a weird as can be audio world. The problem is that they sell well with hiss. If no one bought them and focus groups all said "They Hiss"! Then things would change, but if it sells with hiss, they don't care.

LOL, you have a point.

They are designed to be used by professionals in a studio doing a job. A bit of hiss when no music is playing is irrelevant to the job.

??? IMHO A product designed for "pro" use should offer performance equal to or beyond that made for a "consumer" level product.
Achieving a silent SNR for this gear (with the input shorted) should be a trivial matter.

 

[Anthony101]

I keep reading that the new cable physics is Quantum. The way I figure it, if someone starts talking about quantum as relates to anything audio, its prudent to face the other direction and run as hard as you can.

The audio industry has finally found its way to 'quantum leap' into our wallets! Next time someone mentions quantum audio cables, nod sagely and say, 'Ah, yes, I'm waiting for the Schrödinger's version. I hear it both improves and doesn't improve sound quality simultaneously, depending on whether you're observing the price tag or not.

 

[rwortman]

A product designed for "pro" use should offer performance equal to or beyond that made for a "consumer" level product.
Achieving a silent SNR for this gear (with the input shorted) should be a trivial matter.

A product designed for pro use is designed to do the job the pro bought it for. Dead silence when paused is not a requirement for producing a good mix. Similarly, neither is 100db SNR for a PA amp when crowd noise in the venue is over 70db with a well behaved audience. “Performance” for a pro studio monitor is flat response, low distortion, play as loud as needed while maintaining the first two. Super low noise is not needed. That’s a home audio requirement, for some.

 

[SIY]

I keep reading that the new cable physics is Quantum. The way I figure it, if someone starts talking about quantum as relates to anything audio, its prudent to face the other direction and run as hard as you can.

I just got next semester's schedule and I'm supposed to teach quantum mechanics. I am currently editing my lecture notes to reflect the amazing contributions to the field by people like Jack Bybee and Ted Denney.

 

[rwortman]

What we have is competing fears. Generally, people who are 100% sure of their beliefs don’t get angry (and sarcasm is anger disguised) when they are challenged. Some measurements are everything people have a fear of missing out and subjectivists have a fear of looking foolish. Since being ”outed” as a fool is much more traumatic than being shown to have missed out, subjectivist’s anger tends to burn a little hotter.

 

[mhardy6647]

That goes for quantum anything that is not about the actual physics subject.

Or an old VW model appreciation

This Volkswagen Quantum Syncro is the raddest car you've never heard of - Hagerty Media

Remember the VW Quantum Syncro? Didn't think so. This AWD, five-cylinder wagon could be yours ... but don't hesitate. You may not see another anytime soon.

www.hagerty.com

 

[OJAUSSIE]

What we have is competing fears. Generally, people who are 100% sure of their beliefs don’t get angry (and sarcasm is anger disguised) when they are challenged. Some measurements are everything people have a fear of missing out and subjectivists have a fear of looking foolish. Since being ”outed” as a fool is much more traumatic than being shown to have missed out, subjectivist’s anger tends to burn a little hotter.

I just take the easy way out and buy all my components from the same manufacturers in their specific field. Rotel for my pre-amp, power amp and CD player and B&W for my speakers. Seems to work quite well and doesn't break the bank.

 

[Doodski]

I just got next semester's schedule and I'm supposed to teach quantum mechanics. I am currently editing my lecture notes to reflect the amazing contributions to the field by people like Jack Bybee and Ted Denney.

It was always refreshing, informative and educational when a important contributor to science was given a bit of a mention regarding their historical significance when I studied electronics. We all get personally involved when reading of such people.

 

[xray]

"Quantum" is used by people/companies who have no clue what it means but want to get on the hype bandwagon. Just like "Crypto" and "Blockchain".

 

[danadam]

Well, heck, Steve "Decware" Deckert told us all about that years ago!

DECWARE - Article on the Magic Listening Hour

A flagship audiophile website featuring the personality of audio guru Steve Deckert, with many articles on high fidelity and acoustics to read you can also find online forums, stereo classifieds and his line of Zen Triode tube gear

www.decware.com

Oh boy, "the Sun is on the exact other side of the planet".

Just to be clear, I only meant that it's quieter at night.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

When you buy a Ferrari, do you think you can drive 175mph on the highway? If not, why would anyone buy it?

Here is the class D IC used in the KH80: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh80dsp-teardown.24116/post-813461

This IC is not bad, but definitely not state of the art. And when compared to SOTA, it's indeed inferior.

You seem offended, so I will repeat once again, I am not bashing on these pro audio gear, I just brought the KH120 last week and I am happy with it. But being happy with it doesn't mean I can't criticize it for areas of improvement. Additionally, I have stated that pro audio have different priorities as home audio. So take a chill pill and relax, the Neumann are great and I have a pair and enjoying it!

Studio monitors are tools for professionals who don't care about hiss, they weren't designed for home audio users to take home and use as a hi-fi system. Pleasing hi-fi consumers is not part of their design specification, they aren't their expected users.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Studio monitors are tools for professionals who don't care about hiss, they weren't designed for home audio users to take home and use as a hi-fi system. Pleasing hi-fi consumers is not part of their design specification, they aren't their expected users.

What? Why would professionals not care about hiss? They usually will be seated closer than home listeners. I'm sure it is a cost saving measure and good enough, but barely. In more expensive monitors it really is unforgivable or at least quite unnecessary.