Is the entire audio industry a fraud?

[bodhi]

Indeed the night and day differences people describe when upgrading already competent gear are absolutely ridiculous. Would I call it fraud? Maybe not, but overstated fir sure and I get your point.

Adding couple of competent subs to a 2.0 system would still be considered a huge objective improvement though, providing one or in some cases two octaves of audible information.

That is as close as it gets to "night and day" differences if you already have something more than a clock radio for your music listening.

 

[antcollinet]

Adding couple of competent subs to a 2.0 system would still be considered a huge objective improvement though, providing one or in some cases two octaves of audible information.

That is as close as it gets to "night and day" differences if you already have something more than a clock radio for your music listening.

But only with music that has something in that bottom octave. Depending on what types of music, that migh be very little.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Well many have encountered being shocked in the morning thinking that maybe it was a shapeshifter.
I guess in that scenario, cosmetics is a type of “Snake Oil”… in a double entendre sense.

You might be confusing shapeshifter with beer goggles. Beer goggles are a proven factual thing. Used at bar closing times most nights. The shock in the morning is the real issue........

 

[Axo1989]

You might be confusing shapeshifter with beer goggles. Beer goggles are a proven factual thing. Used at bar closing times most nights. The shock in the morning is the real issue........

It's all make-up and drugs, innit?

 

[Spkrdctr]

It's all make-up and drugs, innit?

Truth!

 

[Holmz]

You might be confusing shapeshifter with beer goggles. Beer goggles are a proven factual thing. Used at bar closing times most nights. The shock in the morning is the real issue........

If beer googles are a factual thing, then it is objective.
The shapeshifter is more of a faith, magic, and subjective thing.

 

[atmasphere]

To this day I have yet to understand what sound stage actually is.

'Sound Stage' is the ability of the system to cast a 3D image per the theories of Alan Blumlein. If you hear about audiophiles talking about 'depth', 'imaging', 'palpability', these are all aspects of the sound stage. If the speakers are poorly set up this aspect of the stereo will not be present. The use of the word 'stereo' itself comes from the optical concept of stereoscopic vision; we hear in stereo as well.

 

[MattHooper]

The fraud is exactly the same in both our last sentences.

Watch YouTube videos, the extension, the depth! The transients! The warmth! The sound stage.

All of which are viable descriptions of real sonic attributes.

To this day I have yet to understand what sound stage actually is.

Really? Presuming you have two working ears and have listened to a stereo recording sitting between the speakers at an appropriate distance: in terms of what you hear, what do YOU think seems to be happening spatially around those speakers? How would you describe the changes that happen between different recordings?

 

[Cote Dazur]

To this day I have yet to understand what sound stage actually is.

This is not the thread for this, but if you are genuinely intrigued and open to advice, open a thread in Room Acoustics and General Speaker Discussions.
with a picture{s} and a drawing of your set up in your room and I (and no doubt many other) will be glad to help you discover and understand "what sound stage actually is".

 

[Blumlein 88]

'Sound Stage' is the ability of the system to cast a 3D image per the theories of Alan Blumlein. If you hear about audiophiles talking about 'depth', 'imaging', 'palpability', these are all aspects of the sound stage. If the speakers are poorly set up this aspect of the stereo will not be present. The use of the word 'stereo' itself comes from the optical concept of stereoscopic vision; we hear in stereo as well.

You need your speakers at a 90 degree angle and to have recorded with cross figure 8 micropones to fit Alan Blumlein's stereo ideas ideally.

 

[Xulonn]

You need your speakers at a 90 degree angle and to have recorded with cross figure 8 micropones to fit Alan Blumlein's stereo ideas ideally.

Any relationship between your ASR handle and Alan Blumlein?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Any relationship between your ASR handle and Alan Blumlein?

Well of course. It was one of my favorite techniques for minimalist recordings. I finally understood however almost no one wants minimalist recordings.

My other favorite was spaced omnis, but I couldn't think of a way to make it into a cool username.

 

[mhardy6647]

I finally understood however almost no one wants minimalist recordings.

You're not suggesting that the number of such folks is minimal, are you?

I'm sorry -- I just can't help myself sometimes.

 

[atmasphere]

Well of course. It was one of my favorite techniques for minimalist recordings. I finally understood however almost no one wants minimalist recordings.

My other favorite was spaced omnis, but I couldn't think of a way to make it into a cool username.

Obviously space omnis work for great imaging as well, as you already know. I just linked to Blumlein since he is one of the pioneers in the sport.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Obviously space omnis work for great imaging as well, as you already know. I just linked to Blumlein since he is one of the pioneers in the sport.

I have experimented and using your speakers at a 90 degree angle is better than 60 degrees commonly seen for crossed figure 8. Not that such recordings don't sound good at 60 degrees. However as you see something from 45 to 60 degrees even in serious setups I use Blumlein less than I once did. Spaced cards are rather adaptable for various spacing/angles. Jecklin disks and other baffles with omnis can be pretty nice too. One oddity that can work is a Jecklin disk combined with a hypercard straight ahead. I find Jecklin disk to have almost a hole in the middle effect unless really close to the musicians.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I have experimented and using your speakers at a 90 degree angle is better than 60 degrees commonly seen for crossed figure 8. Not that such recordings don't sound good at 60 degrees. However as you see something from 45 to 60 degrees even in serious setups I use Blumlein less than I once did. Spaced cards are rather adaptable for various spacing/angles. Jecklin disks and other baffles with omnis can be pretty nice too. One oddity that can work is a Jecklin disk combined with a hypercard straight ahead. I find Jecklin disk to have almost a hole in the middle effect unless really close to the musicians.

Yup, whatever you said!



Wait, what did you say?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yup, whatever you said!



Wait, what did you say?

The proper way Alan Blumlein wanted you to use stereo was with a crossed pair of figure 8 or ribbon microphones. Aimed 90 degrees from each other. And to play it back you speakers should optimally subtend an angle of 90 degrees to the listening position.

Here are a couple of films demonstrating this. One from 1933 and another from I think 1935.

Front and rear view of a Jecklin disk setup.

 

[mhardy6647]

To me, and FWIW, stuff like that ^^^ is way more interesting, elegant, and clever than Dolby Atmos x.y.z claptrap.

 

[atmasphere]

Usually when I do on location recordings I do some sort of crossed pattern. If figure 8s, 90 degrees, if cardoid about 110 degrees.

 

[riffer]

Well it may be a case of 97% of the industry giving the rest of it a bad reputation. That sort of thing. Not to mention self delusion can be fun and profitable (for others).

Lol. On point.
Even the good companies have to play the game.