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Is Spotify darker than lossless?

dfuller

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I finally got fed up with Spotify over their awful UI updates and decided to switch over to Tidal. Imagine my surprise when I listen to a song I know extremely well and the Tidal version sounded noticeably different - it's brighter!

Well, more accurately, the cymbal wash is much more prominent. So, I compared it to a 44.1/16 WAV CD rip I did, and lo and behold - level matched in a DAW (I looped back Tidal and Spotify via RME Totalmix, and oddly enough Tidal was about 0.2dB lower peak than the CD rip and Spotify was about 0.1dB louder), Spotify in fact did sound darker. I polarity inverted it vs the CD rip (it was to-the-sample aligned), and almost all of the info that showed up as the artifacts were top end - that and a bit of transient pop.

This was on Spotify's maximum quality, which is I believe 320k Ogg Vorbis. To say I'm surprised I heard a difference is understating it. I know the limits of my hearing. I can't readily distinguish between an 320k MP3 and a 44.1/16 wave file.
 
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Bamyasi

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Cymbals is one of those things where you can tell lossy from lossless codec pretty easily because of a rather specific and clearly audible (even at low levels) artifacts created by the compression, which are quite common. Especially when you have clear reference in form of original (CD/WAV) recording. This is actually the most annoying thing and the reason I prefer to pay extra for lossless streaming. Those artifacts are transient and not happen very often, and they are also very mild but once you have heard them for the first time you will tend to listen to them instead of music, as distracting as it is. At least that was my impression.

BTW, I also found Spotify Premium sounding "dark" compared both to my own CD rips and to Qobuz CD Redbook quality streaming. Not sure how to describe it. Almost like they were EQing all their tracks to work better as a sleeping aid :)
 

Grotti

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How bored does one need to be to compare various streaming files?
When I would notice a difference between to streaming services, which I pay for a serious amount of money over the years, I would also check out, whether it is me or the data.

And I am NOT bored, believe me ;)
 

Chrispy

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When I would notice a difference between to streaming services, which I pay for a serious amount of money over the years, I would also check out, whether it is me or the data.

And I am NOT bored, believe me ;)

LOL just curious. I just use one myself and it's fine....just a way to access entertainment, not like I own it :)
 

renevoorburg

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I recently checked some ‘audio test tones’ that are on Spotify using a strobe. Above 15kHz they flatlined. Perhaps that does explain it?
 
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dfuller

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I recently checked some ‘audio test tones’ that are on Spotify using a strobe. Above 15kHz they flatlined. Perhaps that does explain it?
I have good content up to 20k at spotify's very high quality, so it's not that.
 

renevoorburg

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I have good content up to 20k at spotify's very high quality, so it's not that.

Right. I probably used standard quality.

Getting to think about it: my aim was to test the frequency response of an amplifier I was working on. The curve I measured at it outputs using the test tones on Spotify as its inputs wasn't flat. This triggered me to test the frequency response of the test tones, straight from my laptop (with Spotify web), no amplifier in between, and the error I spotted was already there! I concluded that probably my laptop (a MacBook) or the software on it caused that unexpected frequency response.

Perhaps its wasn't the laptop that caused it but 'tuning' at Spotify?
 

Vict0r

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You're not crazy. I listen to mostly metal and rock music and it's pretty audible, mainly in the cymbals. I think a lot of people that keep yelling "No one can hear the difference between 192kbps and lossless!" often listen to electronic music or something, because if you listen to music with a thousand cymbal hits every 4 minutes you immediately notice the artifacting. :p
 

JSmith

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I think a lot of people that keep yelling "No one can hear the difference between 192kbps and lossless!" often listen to electronic music or something, because if you listen to music with a thousand cymbal hits every 4 minutes you immediately notice the artifacting. :p
What about 320kps and lossless?

Yes it's easy to hear artefacting in 192kbps MP3's, easily detectable in electronic music too... but not as easy with 320kbps.



JSmith
 

Vict0r

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What about 320kps and lossless?

Yes it's easy to hear artefacting in 192kbps MP3's, easily detectable in electronic music too... but not as easy with 320kbps.
JSmith

Oh, Spotify has a higher bitrate than 192kbps, ofcourse. My mistake. I think I would have a hard time distinguishing between 320 and lossless, I'm afraid, but I've never really made an effort to properly compare the two. 320kbps sounds fine to me, anyway, but I'm no golden eared wonder boy. :p Years of playing in bands ruined everything above 16khz for me.
 

Katji

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You're not crazy. I listen to mostly metal and rock music and it's pretty audible, mainly in the cymbals. I think a lot of people that keep yelling "No one can hear the difference between 192kbps and lossless!" often listen to electronic music or something, because if you listen to music with a thousand cymbal hits every 4 minutes you immediately notice the artifacting. :p
You know what? 99% of what I listen to is electronic dance music, and cymbals, hi-hats, is really what I go by.
...However, 99% of that is Soundcloud 128Kbps, and that's how I know that the production/mastering is what affects it the most. But also considering that too many of them upload mp3, which then get re-mp3'd by Soundcloud.
 

jameswilson

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How bored does one need to be to compare various streaming files?

How bored does one need to be to post 1,518 times to one forum in just a year?... that should answer your question! lol.

But seriously... why be on this forum if you are not in pursuit of audio bliss? The one thing I've learned in my 10 years at this game... you better be willing to put in the effort to form your own opinion. If you just listen to the internets opinion, you'll never get any answers :)
 

Merkurio

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Are you 100% sure that you're hearing the exact same recording of the song between Spotify and Tidal?

Despite being the same track, even the slightest variation in the production (even from the same record label) could potentially change the sound of the entire album, more so than lossless vs 320 kbps OGG (which is already audible transparent up to 20 kHz).
 
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