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Is SINAD important? - "Myths" about measurements! [Video YT]
- Thread starter patoulol
- Start date
The pipes, the pipes are calling.
That may be. But an electronic device is not a brain. Your DAC is as stupid as a rock. It was designed by a human, and can be tested by a human. Be sure to not confuse content, with equipment.
The beauty of objective data such as measurements is that you don't need to ascertain if the someone is sincere or not. On the other hand, people who appear sincere are very dangerous in this hobby because they use that characteristic to sell you audio voodoo instead of science and engineering.
I am going to caution you to not keep posting word arguments and bring substance to your posts. To borrow your argument, we have better things to do than just dealing with those.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Danny R and grandpa Paul appear very sincere and earnest...
Best examples there are. One of the biggest mistake I have made in business was falling for the same thing and losing a ton of money. The more charming the person, the harder you want to hold on to your wallet!Danny R and grandpa Paul appear very sincere and earnest...
oleg87
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Many audiophiles in my local community seem entirely earnest about completely insane flat-earth electronics beliefs. Earnestness is a poor substitute for knowledge of either the relevant technical subject matter or the limitations of your hearing.
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
Yep - well into the sea-lioning territory again. In fact, all the actual sea lions got tired and went to bed hours ago.
Fortunately I managed to skip over all the galloping gishes this time.
Others have superlative technical skills based on many years of education and real world experience, and are quite skilled at evaluating engineered electronic devices and their capabilities.
A charlatan may be completely convinced and 'sincere,' when talking about their special knowledge or skills, but that doesn't mean they aren't charlatans.
Best insurance is actual knowledge and understanding, then you can just trust the methodology and the math.
Post in thread 'Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-at-asr-for-the-first-time.17598/post-2155722
People at ASR tend to view good sound as (for electronics) fidelity to signal, and speaker output conforming to Toole and Olive's research. If you like the sound distorted, less accurate, or prefer some other speaker presentation, that's fine, but own it, don't pretend a) lesser fidelity is greater accuracy or b) there must be something wrong with these standards because of your personal preferences or c)you can hear something that can't be measured. There's no need to rationalize your tastes.
Most of us also believe that the way to test for *strictly audible* differences is by properly executed and level-matched double blind procedures, or through taking measurements and recording a result above audible thresholds. The fact that you noticed a difference outside of these conditions simply isn't evidence of a difference in signal quality at your ears. Even if it is a difference in the signal, as opposed to some sighted bias, it is likely to be a difference in amplitude rather than something more subtle.
Finally, all of the above mistakes are simply human. No human being is so "experienced" or "trained', or "sensitive" as to be able to make sighted comparisons objectively.
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-at-asr-for-the-first-time.17598/post-2155722
People at ASR tend to view good sound as (for electronics) fidelity to signal, and speaker output conforming to Toole and Olive's research. If you like the sound distorted, less accurate, or prefer some other speaker presentation, that's fine, but own it, don't pretend a) lesser fidelity is greater accuracy or b) there must be something wrong with these standards because of your personal preferences or c)you can hear something that can't be measured. There's no need to rationalize your tastes.
Most of us also believe that the way to test for *strictly audible* differences is by properly executed and level-matched double blind procedures, or through taking measurements and recording a result above audible thresholds. The fact that you noticed a difference outside of these conditions simply isn't evidence of a difference in signal quality at your ears. Even if it is a difference in the signal, as opposed to some sighted bias, it is likely to be a difference in amplitude rather than something more subtle.
Finally, all of the above mistakes are simply human. No human being is so "experienced" or "trained', or "sensitive" as to be able to make sighted comparisons objectively.
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Astoneroad
Major Contributor
Quote,
‘YouTube audio reviewers...they all want to make money, they're not to be trusted,’
Spot on.
Keith
‘YouTube audio reviewers...they all want to make money, they're not to be trusted,’
Spot on.
Keith
I would say 'we' have a prejudice against those who are in the business of taking advantage of the ignorance of their customer base, whether they do that 'sincerely' or not.
The propaganda machine has made one of the unquestioned laws of audiophoolery that sound quality increases directly with price, and other than speakers (generally speaking) that just isn't the case, despite the many wives in many kitchens who could clearly hear the improvement when they swapped in their new $7k USB cable.
We are here to help folks get off the crazy train.
You should be sceptical of what they say the same as you should be sceptical of any salesman. You should cross check their claims before accepting them.
'Trust' isn't necessary, you aren't committing a crime with them or needing them to watch your back in a firefight.
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
And by doing so, push the charlatans off the gravy train.
Reminds me of that old saying about the difference between a good friend and a true friend. A good friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
Exactly - everything a salesman says is aimed at guiding you to buy what he wants you to buy. Not necessarily what is best for you.
They are actually trained how to do that.
The best armour against this is know-how. Knowledge is power.
Nope. There are good video reviewers such as Erin. It is all about what they produce and how. Erin (and I) generate objective data and that is the core of our youtube content. The people you quoted go 100% against audio science, producing nonsense. I already showed you evidence of this even in easy cases: differences between speakers/tonality of music. On devices where such differences don't exist or are very small, nothing, absolutely nothing they say is trustworthy.
So it is not about "feeling." You either follow the science, demonstrate that knowledge and produce reliable audio fidelity opinions or you don't. This is about being prudent, not being cynical. By your logic, I should trust medical advice from anyone on youtube as long as there are fellow youtubers repeating the same thing, over advice of medical professionals. Or legal advice from Joe Random on youtube as opposed to a lawyer. Or who knows who vs your advice in your field of operation.
Come back and tell me that you go by anyone's opinion in any field just by sincerity and I say you are superbly gullible and ripe for being taken advantage of.
Anyone who doesn't support their subjective claims with volume-matched blind tests shouldn't be trusted. Audio YouTubers are just one example of such people. There are also people like Erin who try to build a bridge between his subjective opinions and measurements. I like watching him, I wouldn't take his subjective opinions very seriously though.
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