Is room modes inevitable for an smaller room without heavy room treatment?

[PristineSound]

The title of the post is the post.

I have a small room 13ft W x 13ft L x 12ft H
It's got two corner bass traps and two 1 inch panel, area rug, rear wall got thick curtains. (I am aware that the one inch panels, area rug and curtains won't do much for bass and I also am aware that most domestic bass traps can only handle bass so low).

About 8 ft away, =< ~85dBA no room mode, but > ~85dBA, it starts activate room modes.

Anyone successfully rid of room modes for a smallish room for practical listening scenarios, (without extreme room treatment and using multiple subs for bass management).

 

[JRowland]

Dirac ART

 

[DVDdoug]

Is room modes inevitable for an smaller room without heavy room treatment?

Yes. And any room that fits in a house is "small".

 

[Oddball]

Dirac ART

Agreed. But you will still have to put in some resources to have ART have something to work with. Multiple subs are always good, even if they are SVS 1000 Pro class or similar, which don't need a run to a bank, at least for most looking for pristine sound.

 

[JRowland]

Agreed. But you will still have to put in some resources to have ART have something to work with. Multiple subs are always good, even if they are SVS 1000 Pro class or similar, which don't need a run to a bank, at least for most looking for pristine sound.

He’s got some bass traps and no subs was his specification not mine. Got any other suggestions for a square room?

 

[PristineSound]

Dirac ART

Forgot to add, without DSP.

 

[GS430man]

All rooms have modes. "Small" rooms, such as any room in a house, have modes in the audible range. Primarily the bass region below 200hz.

Good designers compensate for room modes with several strategies, usually using all of them:
1) careful room design
2) carefully selected and placed room treatments
3) careful placement of the main listening position
4) electronics that can neutralize or bypass some of the issue (Trinnov Waveforming or DBA, Storm with ART, etc plus external DSP for subwoofers)
4) careful placement of multiple subwoofers

There are many reasons why these techniques are not a good choice for everyone....budget, aesthetics, etc. However, anyone choosing not to use these techniques will be living with room modes.

 

[tineared]

I would advise you to keep the speakers as far from any wall as is possible

 

[Oddball]

He’s got some bass traps and no subs was his specification not mine. Got any other suggestions for a square room?

Well, as just clarified, no DSP so no love. I would suggest lighting the candles and a bit of a prayer in absence of other more tangible ways to address the issue.

 

[JRowland]

Well, as just clarified, no DSP so no love. I would suggest lighting the candles and a bit of a prayer in absence of other more tangible ways to address the issue.

I hit unwatch when I saw the no dsp

 

[Oddball]

I hit unwatch when I saw the no dsp

.

 

[Flaesh]

a bit of a prayer

It helps a little, here is the GD before (green) and after (blue):

 

[sigbergaudio]

There's no way to get rid of it. DSP can improve it within a limited seating area. Lots of subs + total freedom over where you put speakers, sub and listening position will also greatly improve the matter. Acoustic treatment and general damping is a very good way to improve the sound, but will not help with bass / room modes.

 

[PristineSound]

Well, as just clarified, no DSP so no love.

I hit unwatch when I saw the no dsp

There's no way to get rid of it. DSP can improve it within a limited seating area. Lots of subs + total freedom over where you put speakers, sub and listening position will also greatly improve the matter. Acoustic treatment and general damping is a very good way to improve the sound, but will not help with bass / room modes.

Just to be clear, I have a lot of love for DSP, my main system runs the miniDSP SHD. I also have a lot of love for subs, my main system have two SVS SB-3000.

For this secondary system in this room, no subs, no DSP.

I know you can't get rid of room modes, I was asking in practical listening scenarios, is it possible. For example, in my room and setup, below 85dBA at listening distance, in sweet spot, no audible room modes.

I would consider 90dBA to still be within practical listening.

I would not consider no room modes at any SPL and any location, that is not practical and in fact, it's just against the laws of physics.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I know you can't get rid of room modes, I was asking in practical listening scenarios, is it possible.

Feels like you're contradicting yourself here?

They're less noticeable if you play low, but they're still there.

If your question is, can you live with them? Of course you can, millions of music enthusiasts do.

 

[Flaesh]

no audible

5 graphs, 10 dB increments, aligned for clarity:

 

[Axo1989]

There's no way to get rid of it. DSP can improve it within a limited seating area. Lots of subs + total freedom over where you put speakers, sub and listening position will also greatly improve the matter. Acoustic treatment and general damping is a very good way to improve the sound, but will not help with bass / room modes.

Pretty much. And the OP has ruled out every applicable solution. Except knocking down a wall or two. That could work.

 

[PristineSound]

5 graphs, 10 dB increments, aligned for clarity:
View attachment 511344

Not sure what the conclusion you have in mind based on this graph, perhaps you are saying SPL doesn't affect room modes much?

 

[PristineSound]

Pretty much. And the OP has ruled out every applicable solution. Except knocking down a wall or two. That could work.

Feels like you're contradicting yourself here?

They're less noticeable if you play low, but they're still there.

If your question is, can you live with them? Of course you can, millions of music enthusiasts do.

I know technical people are very specific, and I do realized the question leaves a lot of uncertainty and confusion.

So, let me try again.

In a smallish room, is it possible to significantly reduce room modes, such that is minimally audible, for a one-person stationary listening position for up to 90 dBA at listening position. Without the use of subs, DSP and significant room treatment.

Edit: I am able to eliminate audible room mode (inaudible to my ears at least) of all room modes for approximately <= 85dBA at my listening position.

 

[Axo1989]

I know technical people are very specific, and I do realized the question leaves a lot of uncertainty and confusion.

So, let me try again.

In a smallish room, is it possible to significantly reduce room modes, such that is minimally audible, for a one-person stationary listening position for up to 90 dBA at listening position. Without the use of subs, DSP and significant room treatment.

At lower listening levels you will benefit from our reduced hearing sensitivity at the lower frequencies. So bass modes may be less apparent. You’ll still have unequal frequency response there at any given listening position. Your best bet is to play with loudspeaker position, relative to both room and LP if you can (but maybe less freedom in a smaller room).