Is REL being more 'musical' than SVS a myth, or is there some real science behind this?

[Kal Rubinson]

A normal room with concrete walls? What, you live in a prison?

Nope. Just an apartment in a reinforced concrete apartment house in NYC.

 

[goat76]

The reason REL subwoofers are considered "musical" has probably more to do with how easy they are to integrate with the rest of the system. It's not the hardware that is musical (if that's really necessary to point out?)

A good subwoofer integration, no matter how it's done, will always sound "musical".

 

[Chrispy]

Nope. Just an apartment in a reinforced concrete apartment house in NYC.

Just struck me as odd. Have never had a room with concrete walls except in the basement. I guess if you must live in an apartment concrete would be best way to insulate from neighbors.

 

[DonH56]

Most AVRs have a fourth order 24 db/oct crossover for the LP crossover to the subs , and a second order ( 12 db oct ) HP crossovers for the main loudspeaker. The THX standard says that the main front loudspeakers shall be identical and closed.
The second order ( 12 dB/oct ) HP crossovers in THX AVRs combines with the natural roll off, of the main fronts . Because the mains front loudspeakers is closed, they roll of naturally with 12 dB/oct . Combining two 12 dB/oct crossovers, one electrical to the main loudspeaker, and one the natural roll off, makes together a 24 db/oct slope.

So - the THX 24 dB LP ( for subwoofers ) and 12 + 12 dB HP for the main speakers makes a 24 / 24 crossover - a fourth order crossover = good integration.

Yes, recommended per spec, but the ones I have around have 12 dB/oct options for both mains and subs. As I mentioned earlier, my mains are not sealed but ported, although I cross over well above the port tune frequency. In any event, my system targets Dolby Atmos rather than the THX spec explicitly, though there is a lot of overlap among specs. I still do not understand how any of this relates to REL subwoofers somehow being better than all others. At any rate, no point in continuing to argue in circles.

Have a nice day,
Don

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Just struck me as odd. Have never had a room with concrete walls except in the basement. I guess if you must live in an apartment concrete would be best way to insulate from neighbors.

Yup. When I was shopping, I knew I found the right place as soon as I stepped inside and closed the door.

 

[DMill]

Credit where credit is due. REL saw before many that a good sub wasn’t just a nice thing to have. They made the nicest black boxes you could put in your living room 30 years ago. And even saw value in 2.1 systems. I date myself and now find them a bit average compared to other manufacturers currently.

 

[Chrispy]

Credit where credit is due. REL saw before many that a good sub wasn’t just a nice thing to have. They made the nicest black boxes you could put in your living room 30 years ago. And even saw value in 2.1 systems. I date myself and now find them a bit average compared to other manufacturers currently.

They also certainly had a head start with the "audiophile" press/media (but not the detailed review type).

 

[Tangband]

A normal room with concrete walls? What, you live in a prison? Room gain will vary with room quite a bit. Some will have rooms with almost no room gain, just funky modes. SVS is not hopelessly boomy, but your setup abilities might be.....Rel is overpriced and underperforming.

I live in Sweden in a 4 room flat in a city ..
Many people in this land live in apartments, its not as uncommon as in the US.

 

[Tangband]

Yup. When I was shopping, I knew I found the right place as soon as I stepped inside and closed the door.

Concrete is rather good as a wall behind the speakers, much better than more unstable material. With very thin walls of other materials, it will or might impact the bass quality in a bad way.

 

[tvih]

I guess if you must live in an apartment concrete would be best way to insulate from neighbors.

You'd wish... I mean sure, it's better for blocking sound than a building made of wood or some such, but without additional sound insulation sound still carries plenty. Like in this crappy one where I live. Worst of both worlds, so to speak.

 

[Jake Cushing]

I'm sorry for necroing this thread, but God allMIGHTY the difference between REL and SVS is insane.

I dearly wish I had seen this thread before buying a REL T5x.

For a second space I opted for an SVS SB1000. It is so vastly superior that I don't even think REL should be allowed to call themselves a subwoofer maker. They make shiny foot-stools.

The SVS has deep, proper, actual bass you can hear and feel and which articulates with the music. The REL adds a bit of floor vibration. And the SVS was 30% cheaper.

I'm shocked and disgusted by REL and urge nobody out there to purchase their products.

 

[cavedriver]

Just struck me as odd. Have never had a room with concrete walls except in the basement. I guess if you must live in an apartment concrete would be best way to insulate from neighbors.

Since this thread is getting necro'd I just have to share that this post made me chuckle. I'm thinking, like where does this guy live that he's never seen concrete walls, I mean most of Europe, so I looked down at the location- PNW - and laughed. Only the lumber capital of America. I suspect even the banks are still made out of wood there

Edit: Oh yeah, and don't buy REL. I like my Monoprice sub, crazy powerful, can't comment on the "musicality" because I only use it for movies.

 

[goat76]

I'm sorry for necroing this thread, but God allMIGHTY the difference between REL and SVS is insane.

I dearly wish I had seen this thread before buying a REL T5x.

For a second space I opted for an SVS SB1000. It is so vastly superior that I don't even think REL should be allowed to call themselves a subwoofer maker. They make shiny foot-stools.

The SVS has deep, proper, actual bass you can hear and feel and which articulates with the music. The REL adds a bit of floor vibration. And the SVS was 30% cheaper.

I'm shocked and disgusted by REL and urge nobody out there to purchase their products.

I’m glad you like the sound of your SVS subwoofer.

I’m sorry you didn't manage to integrate your REL subwoofer well into your sound system.

 

[poxymoron]

I'm sorry for necroing this thread, but God allMIGHTY the difference between REL and SVS is insane.

I dearly wish I had seen this thread before buying a REL T5x.

For a second space I opted for an SVS SB1000. It is so vastly superior that I don't even think REL should be allowed to call themselves a subwoofer maker. They make shiny foot-stools.

The SVS has deep, proper, actual bass you can hear and feel and which articulates with the music. The REL adds a bit of floor vibration. And the SVS was 30% cheaper.

I'm shocked and disgusted by REL and urge nobody out there to purchase their products.

A bit harsh I think. I know there's a lot of REL dislikers on ASR but I'm sure if you spend enough on REL you'll find one equal to an SVS sub. But that's the problem, you'll need to spend a lot more. A bit of research could have told you that the T5x is not a real subwoofer.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

A bit of research could have told you that the T5x is not a real subwoofer.

That is absolutely, completely FALSE.!!!!

A bit of research will convince you that REL is one of the best, if not the only, TRUE SUB for music. It is only after a LOT of research, where you happen to get lucky enough to stumble across ASR and a few other sites (that are NOT in the mainstream) to get a different view of REL.

So please don't cast aspersions on someone who came here being honest about their journey. Because I'm willing to bet they had read and listened a more than "a bit of research" before their purchase.

For me, their feedback is very helpful since I've been wondering whether the different from a REL T/5i to an SVS SB-1000 would be significant, given that I already own dual REL T/5i subs. But also see my other posts... while I was a bit swayed by RELs marketing (and their extended influencer network), it actually was the right purchase for what I needed in the location we were at the time.

[Edited to add emoji... my response is a bit tongue-in-cheek to "a bit" of research being sufficient]

 

[Jake Cushing]

That is absolutely, completely FALSE.!!!! A bit of research will convince you that REL is one of the best, if not the only, TRUE SUB for music. It is only after a LOT of research, where you happen to get lucky enough to stumble across ASR and a few other sites (that are NOT in the mainstream) to get a different view of REL.

So please don't cast aspersions on someone who came here being honest about their journey. Because I'm willing to bet they had read and listened a more than "a bit of research" before their purchase.

For me, their feedback is very helpful since I've been wondering whether the different from a REL T/5i to an SVS SB-1000 would be significant, given that I already own dual REL T/5i subs. But also see my other posts... while I was a bit swayed by RELs marketing (and their extended influencer network), it actually was the right purchase for what I needed in the location we were at the time.

This is absolutely correct. Add in the culture of BS around REL from hi-fi retailers, and it was a mistake very easily made.

As to your situation @rcstevensonaz , from my recent experience, I would suggest selling your REL subs and purchasing a single SVS SB1000. I can't speak for any other model, and I am a fan of sealed boxes for speakers in general so wouldn't suggest the ported versions.

You will hear bass (and notes within the bass) that is not present at all with the REL, and unless your space is large, it will be all you need.

 

[Ecksbocks]

At on point I owned an REL R328. It was a very nice looking sub, A+ for ascetics and build quality. Unfortunately it was basically a one note wonder. The frequency response peaked at 80 hz and dropped quickly in both directions. When I attempted to eq in a better response, distortion produced by the passive radiator was highly distracting. My current SVS PC2000 Pro on the other hand gives flat distortion free bass at the listening levels I prefer. I have never really noticed the group delay issue with any sub I have owned, but I can immediately hear distortion or poor frequency response.

Spot on, I had a Real Strata 5, felt exactly the same.

 

[poxymoron]

That is absolutely, completely FALSE.!!!! A bit of research will convince you that REL is one of the best, if not the only, TRUE SUB for music. It is only after a LOT of research, where you happen to get lucky enough to stumble across ASR and a few other sites (that are NOT in the mainstream) to get a different view of REL.

So please don't cast aspersions on someone who came here being honest about their journey. Because I'm willing to bet they had read and listened a more than "a bit of research" before their purchase.

For me, their feedback is very helpful since I've been wondering whether the different from a REL T/5i to an SVS SB-1000 would be significant, given that I already own dual REL T/5i subs. But also see my other posts... while I was a bit swayed by RELs marketing (and their extended influencer network), it actually was the right purchase for what I needed in the location we were at the time.

Calm down Steve, no need to raise your voice, you will be heard. Too much coffee this morning??

If you read my post again you might see that I'm kinda defending REL. They get a bad rap on ASR but I reckon the REL dislikers on ASR might struggle to choose the best sub in a blind test between an SVS sub and an equivalently specced REL sub, when both subs are integrated correctly. To do such a blind test would mean choosing an SVS sub at €X and a REL sub at perhaps €XXX. So a lot more €€€€ for the equivalent REL sub. However, I don't believe the REL musicality horsh!t. When you're selling a sub for 2x or 3x times the price of an equivalently specced SVS then you need to be liberal with the marketing shi!te.

But my point on the T5x STILL STANDS. It cannot be considered a REAL SUB if you properly consider the SPECS. And anybody who thought a T5x will compare well with an SVS SB-1000 should have done THEIR RESEARCH online.
BTW, I'm following YOUR lead on the CAPS.

Now turn on some James Taylor and chill the f#ck out.
Peace.

Edit:
Can I submit to you, exhibit A:

Why the fuss with subwoofer specs and brands?

???

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Willem]

REL subs look good but are expensive. If that is fine with you because looks are important, the money is well spent. However, dollar for dollar they obviously don't have the extension that others do.
From a financial point of view it does not make much sense to sell them as you would loose too much on the sale. The smarter option would be to go the Geddes route and buy one additional big subwoofer. That will give you the extension, while the little REL's will smoothen the response where it matters most.

 

[poxymoron]

REL subs look good but are expensive. If that is fine with you because looks are important, the money is well spent. However, dollar for dollar they obviously don't have the extension that others do.
From a financial point of view it does not make much sense to sell them as you would loose too much on the sale. The smarter option would be to go the Geddes route and buy one additional big subwoofer. That will give you the extension, while the little REL's will smoothen the response where it matters most.

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