Is Oppo HA-1 still relevant to be used as DAC?

[vladc77]

Hello all,

I am glad I found this forum and hope you can help me to decide either I will get any audible benefit of upgrading my current setup.

I am currently use Oppo HA-1 as headphone amplifier and as a DAC source for Denon PMA 600NE Integrated Amplifier to drive KLH Model 5 and sometime Klipsch PM500M. I like this little amplifier since the sound is really good to my ears. Denon's internal DAC sounds almost the same as Oppo HA1 with a slight edge to Oppo HA-1. Aa result, I am looking for an advise for DAC upgrading with something like Denafrips ARES II or RME ADI-2 DAC FS. I am wondering if upgrading from older DAC as Oppo HA-1 will bring a significant sound quality improvement that will be noticeable. Any recommendation are highly appreciated.

 

[DVDdoug]

Most DACs are better than human hearing so I wouldn't expect any difference.

 

[vladc77]

Most DACs are better than human hearing so I wouldn't expect any difference.

Yes, it is a logical assumption. I did not find a huge difference between internal Denon's DAC and Oppo HA1 while Oppo is more than twice expensive. Do you think that imagination and self-hypnosis plays the major role in finding differences between various DACs?

 

[Robocop]

Yes I would think your Oppo HA1 is about 8 years old. It would be worth upgrading to something like the Sabaj A20d this has had great reviews check out forums on ACR and Archimago's comprehensive review(it has USBC input). Also the SMLS M500 MKIII(has USBB input) which is so new it hasn't had a review yet. The MKII has reviewed well here on ACR. I personally find RME's price too much(If you want EQ its better at the source). You don't need to go over $500US to get a better Dac. Both these Dac's can handle PCM up to 32/768 and DSD. Dac's have made progress in 8 years you should hear an audible improvement certainly over the Oppo.

 

[DonR]

Yes I would think your Oppo HA1 is about 8 years old. It would be worth upgrading to something like the Sabaj A20d this has had great reviews check out forums on ACR and Archimago's comprehensive review(it has USBC input). Also the SMLS M500 MKIII(has USBB input) which is so new it hasn't had a review yet. The MKII has reviewed well here on ACR. I personally find RME's price too much(If you want EQ its better at the source). You don't need to go over $500US to get a better Dac. Both these Dac's can handle PCM up to 32/768 and DSD. Dac's have made progress in 8 years you should hear an audible improvement certainly over the Oppo.

Unlikely unless you have exceptional hearing.

 

[Chrispy]

What has been the biggest gain in the last 8 years in terms of audibility? Musta missed that one....

 

[Robocop]

Dacs have made considerable improvements since the Oppo HA1 was released. For one it has the old Sabre 9018 chips easy to hear a difference between this old bright sounding chip and the latest 9038PRO. The Oppo only processes to 24/384, new Dacs 24/768. USB inputs now have much improved input circuitry this alone is worth having over old USB inputs. Not to mention better chips, clocks and power supplies. Design of circuitry has steadily improved since 2014. Not to mention improved measurements as witnessed on this web site. Certainly amongst new devices audible differences are difficult to discern.

 

[DonR]

Dacs have made considerable improvements since the Oppo HA1 was released. For one it has the old Sabre 9018 chips easy to hear a difference between this old bright sounding chip and the latest 9038PRO. The Oppo only processes to 24/384, new Dacs 24/768. USB inputs now have much improved input circuitry this alone is worth having over old USB inputs. Not to mention better chips, clocks and power supplies. Design of circuitry has steadily improved since 2014. Not to mention improved measurements as witnessed on this web site. Certainly amongst new devices audible differences are difficult to discern.

Nobody... absolutely nobody can hear the difference between 384 and 768. I doubt anyone can reliably pick out 192 from 96. USB is digital and the transfer of data has not changed in 8 years. It still works. Clocks are the same, jitter issues were resolved decades ago.

 

[Robocop]

Clocks are the same, jitter issues were resolved decades ago.

This is simply not true and measurable.

 

[JSmith]

I am currently use Oppo HA-1 as headphone amplifier and as a DAC source

Just checking you've seen the review here... performs fairly well, although some possible issues with the volume control;

Review and measurements of Oppo HA-1 DAC & Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Oppo HA-1 DAC and headphone amplifier. It is on kind loan from a local member who literally flew to our nearby airport to deliver it to me! The HA-1 is discontinued but it cost USD $1,199 when it was being sold by Oppo. I just searched on ebay...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Here are some basic measurements of the PMA600NE;

Denon DCD-600NE & Denon PMA-600NE Review

New "Gateway Drug" – With the DCD-600NE CD-player and PMA-600NE integrated amplifier, Denon offers a complete package for a total of less than 700 Euros. Can the set deliver in terms of sound? If you believe the genetics: You bet.

stereo-magazine.com

JSmith

 

[Koeitje]

Yes, it is a logical assumption. I did not find a huge difference between internal Denon's DAC and Oppo HA1 while Oppo is more than twice expensive. Do you think that imagination and self-hypnosis plays the major role in finding differences between various DACs?

Price causes an extreme bias in perception.

 

[Trell]

Dacs have made considerable improvements since the Oppo HA1 was released. For one it has the old Sabre 9018 chips easy to hear a difference between this old bright sounding chip and the latest 9038PRO. The Oppo only processes to 24/384, new Dacs 24/768. USB inputs now have much improved input circuitry this alone is worth having over old USB inputs. Not to mention better chips, clocks and power supplies. Design of circuitry has steadily improved since 2014. Not to mention improved measurements as witnessed on this web site. Certainly amongst new devices audible differences are difficult to discern.

A "bright sounding chip"? Really?

 

[fpitas]

A "bright sounding chip"? Really?

I've had a few chats with them. Brilliant!!!

 

[VintageFlanker]

Price causes an extreme bias in perception.

Most likely the most important bias when it comes to Audio...

 

[DonR]

This is simply not true and measurable.

Absolutely is. Jitter has not been audible for decades. Measurement is not audibility.

 

[Chrispy]

Dacs have made considerable improvements since the Oppo HA1 was released. For one it has the old Sabre 9018 chips easy to hear a difference between this old bright sounding chip and the latest 9038PRO. The Oppo only processes to 24/384, new Dacs 24/768. USB inputs now have much improved input circuitry this alone is worth having over old USB inputs. Not to mention better chips, clocks and power supplies. Design of circuitry has steadily improved since 2014. Not to mention improved measurements as witnessed on this web site. Certainly amongst new devices audible differences are difficult to discern.

Are you serious?

 

[Ryeno]

I am currently use Oppo HA-1 as headphone amplifier and as a DAC source for Denon PMA 600NE Integrated Amplifier to drive KLH Model 5 and sometime Klipsch PM500M. I like this little amplifier since the sound is really good to my ears. Denon's internal DAC sounds almost the same as Oppo HA1 with a slight edge to Oppo HA-1. Aa result, I am looking for an advise for DAC upgrading with something like Denafrips ARES II or RME ADI-2 DAC FS. I am wondering if upgrading from older DAC as Oppo HA-1 will bring a significant sound quality improvement that will be noticeable. Any recommendation are highly appreciated.

In this case, you should upgrade your amp. I've never used this amplifier but the specs don't seem amazing and the price point is low so I would assume it's a low to mid-range amp. Buy a new amplifier if you want to spend $$$ or buy a good inexpensive vintage amplifier to save money.

 

[vladc77]

In this case, you should upgrade your amp. I've never used this amplifier but the specs don't seem amazing and the price point is low so I would assume it's a low to mid-range amp. Buy a new amplifier if you want to spend $$$ or buy a good inexpensive vintage amplifier to save money.

Thank you for the tip! I am happy with the sound but of course there are better options too. I am using it in a small room and not sure I will need much more powerful amplifier. Nevertheless, I am considering getting Technics SU-G700M2 but not confident about that yet. In comparison, I have Denon AVRX4700H receiver but Denon PMA 600NE sounds way better with KLM Model 5.

 

[Ryeno]

Thank you for the tip! I am happy with the sound but of course there are better options too. I am using it in a small room and not sure I will need much more powerful amplifier. Nevertheless, I am considering getting Technics SU-G700M2 but not confident about that yet. In comparison, I have Denon AVRX4700H receiver but Denon PMA 600NE sounds way better with KLM Model 5.

It's not necessarily about power but sound quality. I upgraded to a vintage Yamaha ToP-ART amplifier similar to a Yamaha R-S700 and I noticed a difference in audio quality from my previous amplifier. I think you would notice a difference in audio quality with the Technics SU-G700M2.

The Denon AVRX4700H is only $2,100 for a 9 channels + a bunch of modern codecs; $233/channel. My AVR is $4,724.06 after inflation for 5+2 channels and only DD/DTS; ~675-783/channel. So I wouldn't expect the AVRX4700H to sound great because you're paying close to 1/3rd per channel. Similarly, the Denon PMA 600NE is 250/per channel so it makes sense that it'll sound better. Oblviously when you get into high-end amplifiers these metrics won't hold because you're paying a brand premium but under than ~5k price point and with Class AB you can pretty much assume that the more you spend, the better the quality will be, albeit with diminishing returns.

The Denon PMA 600NE has a direct mode to bypass the balance controls but if you want to use an external dac and pre amp then ideally you want either a pure power amplifier or an integrated amplifier with main input that bypasses the entire pre-amp section including the volume knob like the R-S700.

I quickly did some research on the Technics SU-G700M2. It's not the best fit for an audiophile setup with external DAC because it digitizes all analog inputs so you should use the integrated digital inputs without an external DAC. With that said, people say it sounds good.

 

[Chrispy]

Oblviously when you get into high-end amplifiers these metrics won't hold because you're paying a brand premium but under than ~5k price point and with Class AB you can pretty much assume that the more you spend, the better the quality will be, albeit with diminishing returns.

Obliviously seems more correct than obviously for this statement.