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Is Mcintosh current amp?

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#42
Speaking of Mcintosh and BW, the movie Uncut Gems features both brands in a scene. You can't really make out much but I recognized the distinctive Nautalis tweeter and the iconic Mcintosh greenlit glass backplate.
 

mhardy6647

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#43
He has a point, as the ole sayin goes,
"there's no substitute for cubic inches" ! :D
or... there's no replacement for displacement (as the case may be) ;)

This is the solution of another audiophile who, as a veeceem, believes that the power is never enough ...... :D:D:D:D:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:;););) View attachment 48356
Poseur. Guy doesn't have a Mac clock or towel.


1580652316009.png

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/merchandise/McIntosh-Towel

1580652365070.png
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-Q3P2g...9CFbSMMFM1ptV29wHSP_CFnmnFrkLLixoCqc4QAvD_BwE

:)
 

Sal1950

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#44

Siwel

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#45
I drive a pair of Salon 2s with an MC452. If you're looking for a high residual value, excellent performing and very powerful stereo amp it's hard to go wrong with the 452/462 series. I've had mine for four years with no plans to change, no issues and it sounds great to me and everybody else. My room is treated for first reflections and bass response (via absorption) and even though the Revels have very smooth off axis response, treatment has helped greatly in focusing the sound. Best place I spent money on this system apart from the main gear. My room is 23' x16'x9.5' and "sorta" a LEDE setup although the "live end" is still pretty dry. Should tell you how old I am that I even mention LEDE design!

Revel doesn't provide a power handling rating per se for the Salons and if I recall, the factory (Kevin Voecks) will tell you that the more power the better. Of course we know there's a limit but the 452 won't exceed that with typical music dynamics. I have driven my Revels very hard (for science!) to full amplifier output before clipping which is easily determined by the meters and associated"Power Guard" LEDs. These indicate the signal is being affected by the "Power Guard" circuit which clamps down on the output so distortion is kept under 1% regardless of added gain upstream (according to McIntosh). Stereophile (Atkinson) measured the various parameters (of the 462, but they are very very close) HERE. This is about as safe an amp within its envelope as you'll find. The Salons can take it but the sound in my room begins to come apart which comes across as "brightening" and looseness (bass) which I identify as the beginnings of distress. I don't know if this is a combination of power compression (speaker) or rising distortion (amp) or a combination of both but I suspect it's a lot to do with power compression as much as amplifier croaking. That's just a hunch though the measurements do indicate that compression starts to set in above 90dB SPL. Read Here. This is good dope on the Salons.

Levels in my room, which as I said is quite absorptive, never much exceed about 105dB even on peaks measured from my listening position using Audio Tools using my iPhone 11. Not a sophisticated rig but close enough for government work. That's driving the amplifier to full output of around 450 watts (on peaks) using the amp's meters as a guide. The Salon's are inefficient and my room is fairly dry. I don't know if that accounts for the difference in acoustic output beeppeep and I seem to measure but my acoustic output would seem to be lower for a given input level at my listening position. I can't achieve 105dB steady state at anything like 100 watts. It would require the full output or a more powerful amp(!!!) to achieve those levels steady state but by that point the speaker would be in serious power compression according to the work of the NCR s linked above. That's where Floyd Toole worked prior to his position with Harman so it is to be trusted. Regardless the absolute accuracy of my measurements, plenty of clean power is indicated if high levels are desired.

I like the level on my rig (with music that calls for wide dynamics) to average right around 45-50 watts leaving over 10dB of headroom. The system sounds balanced and sweet to me when driven easier and anyway, it gets plenty loud enough. Peaks will of course be higher at such a steady state demand. At 45 watts indicated on Mc's meters, the system is outputting 10 dB below rated continuous power and clearly still has a couple dB of headroom over that. This is an optimal level for loud listening to me and it sounds great by my standards as informed by my experience. I do have subs (2 JLA F113) and they help in bass impact for sure but most people probably won't feel like they need much LF reinforcement. I like subs so I have a pair :) I plan to have this rig for the duration with little if any need to change anything that doesn't break. Digital source is an Oppo 105, and my 2018 iMac all wired by Blue Jeans, which is located about 5 blocks from my old office at the foot of Queen Anne! While in the business I bought most of this stuff as I was still associated with Harman as their NW rep. I pondered endlessly and I too decided this was the best way I could spend BIG money on a jewelry amp and speakers given my situation.

End of the story: Mac equipment is beautiful to look at, has those fun meters calibrated in watts and standard VU, is solidly made, conservatively spec'd, has essentially lifetime support and retains value better than most. If you have the means, you won't be disappointed. Almost forgot! Picture: (Doesn't catch first reflection gobos but they're there).
IMG_2484.jpeg
 
Last edited:
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#46
I drive a pair of Salon 2s with an MC452. If you're looking for a high residual value, excellent performing and very powerful stereo amp it's hard to go wrong with the 452/462 series. I've had mine for four years with no plans to change, no issues and it sounds great to me and everybody else. My room is treated for first reflections and bass response (via absorption) and even though the Revels have very smooth off axis response, treatment has helped greatly in focusing the sound. Best place I spent money on this system apart from the main gear. My room is 23' x16'x9.5' and "sorta" a LEDE setup although the "live end" is still pretty dry. Should tell you how old I am that I even mention LEDE design!

Revel doesn't provide a power handling rating per se for the Salons and if I recall, the factory (Kevin Voecks) will tell you that the more power the better. Of course we know there's a limit but the 452 won't exceed that with typical music dynamics. I have driven my Revels very hard (for science!) to full amplifier output before clipping which is easily determined by the meters and associated"Power Guard" LEDs. These indicate the signal is being affected by the "Power Guard" circuit which clamps down on the output so distortion is kept under 1% regardless of added gain upstream (according to McIntosh). Stereophile (Atkinson) measured the various parameters (of the 462, but they are very very close) HERE. This is about as safe an amp within its envelope as you'll find. The Salons can take it but the sound in my room begins to come apart which comes across as "brightening" and looseness (bass) which I identify as the beginnings of distress. I don't know if this is a combination of power compression (speaker) or rising distortion (amp) or a combination of both but I suspect it's a lot to do with power compression as much as amplifier croaking. That's just a hunch though the measurements do indicate that compression starts to set in above 90dB SPL. Read Here. This is good dope on the Salons.

Levels in my room, which as I said is quite absorptive, never much exceed about 105dB even on peaks measured from my listening position using Audio Tools using my iPhone 11. Not a sophisticated rig but close enough for government work. That's driving the amplifier to full output of around 450 watts (on peaks) using the amp's meters as a guide. The Salon's are inefficient and my room is fairly dry. I don't know if that accounts for the difference in acoustic output beeppeep and I seem to measure but my acoustic output would seem to be lower for a given input level at my listening position. I can't achieve 105dB steady state at anything like 100 watts. It would require the full output or a more powerful amp(!!!) to achieve those levels steady state but by that point the speaker would be in serious power compression according to the work of the NCR s linked above. That's where Floyd Toole worked prior to his position with Harman so it is to be trusted. Regardless the absolute accuracy of my measurements, plenty of clean power is indicated if high levels are desired.

I like the level on my rig (with music that calls for wide dynamics) to average right around 45-50 watts leaving over 10dB of headroom. The system sounds balanced and sweet to me when driven easier and anyway, it gets plenty loud enough. Peaks will of course be higher at such a steady state demand. At 45 watts indicated on Mc's meters, the system is outputting 10 dB below rated continuous power and clearly still has a couple dB of headroom over that. This is an optimal level for loud listening to me and it sounds great by my standards as informed by my experience. I do have subs (2 JLA F113) and they help in bass impact for sure but most people probably won't feel like they need much LF reinforcement. I like subs so I have a pair :) I plan to have this rig for the duration with little if any need to change anything that doesn't break. Digital source is an Oppo 105, and my 2018 iMac all wired by Blue Jeans, which is located about 5 blocks from my old office at the foot of Queen Anne! While in the business I bought most of this stuff as I was still associated with Harman as their NW rep. It was pondered endlessly by me and I too decided this was the best way I could spend BIG money on a jewelry amp and speakers given my situation.

End of the story: Mac equipment is beautiful to look at, has those fun meters calibrated in watts and standard VU, is solidly made, conservatively spec'd, has essentially lifetime support and retains value better than most. If you have the means, you won't be disappointed.
Very much appreciated the comprehensive look into your system and the relationship between the amp and the speaker. Going by your numbers it all sounds completely in line with what I’ve thought the salon2s are capable of. I don’t think having a stronger amp will change much of the power compression issues of the salon2s in the deeper bass regions, 20-80hz. You should definitely have subwoofers for that bass, which you do.

Also, the iPhone is not an accurate SPL meter at all. From my experience, my iPhone 7 routinely measures spl 6-8dB off vs my Minidsp Umik. If it says 75-85dB it’s actually more like 81-91dB SPL.
 

veeceem

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#47
Last time I asked, Revel stated that Salon2s need 50-500w amp.
"The Salon2 speakers are 6ohms nominal with a minimal of 3.7 ohms. The speaker demands 50-500 watts, so it requires a current amplifier that can sustain the power whilst playing your music and movies" - quoted
Btw, I assume "current amp" is the amp that use current-feedback, which their sister brand Mark Levinson (usually) based on?
 
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anmpr1

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#48
End of the story: Mac equipment is beautiful to look at, has those fun meters calibrated in watts and standard VU, is solidly made, conservatively spec'd, has essentially lifetime support and retains value better than most. If you have the means, you won't be disappointed.
In spite of the company's recent move into questionable tweako neighborhoods (something Gordon Gow and Frank McIntosh would not be happy about), if I was looking for this sort of thing it would likely be Mac. For me, the only 'mainstream' competitor would be Accuphase, which would be my first choice, but the Japanese outift doesn't seem to have much of a presence in the US. Possibly Lux as a distant third, but it's the same deal with them. Who wants to have to send an expensive amp to Yokohama for service? Or wait six months for a part? When one spends these kinds of McDollars one doesn't expect a need for service--McIntosh reliability and all that. But if you do need it, McIntosh will treat you right. At least that is how it has always been.
 

Sal1950

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#49
End of the story: Mac equipment is beautiful to look at, has those fun meters calibrated in watts and standard VU, is solidly made, conservatively spec'd, has essentially lifetime support and retains value better than most. If you have the means, you won't be disappointed. Almost forgot! Picture:
Thanks for the detailed report on your system. I'm sure it sounds wonderful as all the included parts should add up to a SOTA HiFi. They should give decades of problem free duty and much personal pleasure. Congrats!
 

Siwel

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#50
Very much appreciated the comprehensive look into your system and the relationship between the amp and the speaker. Going by your numbers it all sounds completely in line with what I’ve thought the salon2s are capable of. I don’t think having a stronger amp will change much of the power compression issues of the salon2s in the deeper bass regions, 20-80hz. You should definitely have subwoofers for that bass, which you do.

Also, the iPhone is not an accurate SPL meter at all. From my experience, my iPhone 7 routinely measures spl 6-8dB off vs my Minidsp Umik. If it says 75-85dB it’s actually more like 81-91dB SPL.
You're welcome! I used to sell measurement equipment so I I think I know what you mean about trusting the internal mic but it's convenient
The nice thing about the phone is it's always with me.
 
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mhardy6647

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#51
I believe that's considered blue, not green. ;)
A matter of debate, not unlike great religious controversies -- in my 1970s era Mac manuals, the term of art was special teal and gold nomenclature referring to the illuminated and nonilluminated parts of the front panels of the hardware of the time (e.g., the C-28 preamp*).

____________
* an awful sounding piece of hardware, although there is still one here in the basement.

Great clock, it's only $1,800! o_O
Be interesting to measure its accuracy ;)
 

garbulky

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#53
I have listened to their flagship monoblocks and the mind boggles as to the prices. Though they sound fine, I have heard a few that sounds equally good (like the Emotiva XPA-1 gen 2) for instance.
 

mhardy6647

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#54
New stuff is actually both. The logo is green and the meters blue. :p
Teal -- from a distance. ;)

All y'all probably know that human's color vision is such that men and women have some fundamental differences in spectral perception in the blue-green region. One corollary of which, of course, is to say yes, dear when(ever) one's spouse/life partner/significant other calls something teal (or aquamarine or blue-green, etc.)... or (IME) sometimes even just green or blue. :)
 

veeceem

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#55

DonH56

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#56
@DonH56
Since you are familiar with Emotiva products, would you please give me recommendation of the newest DR1/DR2 power amp to drive Salon2s? Measurements of DR2 in below link. DR1 should be identical or better without xtalk.
Emotiva is not popular in my country, very hard to resale if doesnt work, no way to audition also. Only blind buy.
Thanks

https://www.hifinews.com/content/emotiva-xsp-1xpa-dr2-prepower-amplifier-lab-report
I have no experience using the DRn amplifiers. I'd guess they'd be fine, but if they are not popular and resale is poor (and probably repairability) where you live I would look at a different brand. The Salon2's are a 4-ohm load over much of their range with some lower dips and are not very sensitive so need a decent amplifier to drive them. On my short list would be Bryston, Benchmark, etc. though much more expensive than Emotiva. If you like McIntosh and folk in your area recommend them they should work fine. Or a host of others, including the new class D amplifiers from various vendors. It depends upon availability and budget.
 

restorer-john

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#57
Autoformers are neat, but its arguably a backwards approach to modern amp design. It works though, and the reason no other amplifiers use autoformers is because they're patented.
What exactly did McIntosh "patent" in relation to autoformers?

There's been plenty of transistor power amplifiers with switched tap output transformers, Sansui's BA-5000, Quad 50e etc.
 

beefkabob

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#58
When are we getting these McAmps measured? Methinks they'll fall far, far behind the newest class D and Benchmark in distortion, though they will probably deliver their promised power.
 

veeceem

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#59
Speaking of current (amperes)
Emotiva DR2, even thou output 650/1000+/1000+watt at 8/4/2ohm. Only 32A max.
While Mc452 is 450/450/450w at 8/4/2. But output 40/50/70A accordingly.
Does this mean Mc452 is better at driving lower impedance? Is 32A of DR2 considered good enough (for Salon2s)? Thanks
 
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#60
Speaking of current (amperes)
Emotiva DR2, even thou output 650/1000+/1000+watt at 8/4/2ohm. Only 32A max.
While Mc452 is 450/450/450w at 8/4/2. But output 40/50/70A accordingly.
Does this mean Mc452 is better at driving lower impedance? Is 32A of DR2 considered good enough (for Salon2s)? Thanks
Short answer is the salon2's are not an amp killer type of speaker. You would be fine driving it with something like the Emotivia. There are no crazy power suckouts of an extraordinary nature comapred to a speaker like the Wilson Sasha 2's for example.
 

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