In the past I believe Marantz has attempted to "oh so slightly" color things using a somewhat non-standard filter choice in their DAC's, though I believe @amirm has found the latest stuff somewhat different?
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Is Marantz dead?
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mhardy6647
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as @MattHooper might put itMy 6 foot wide desktop is cluttered with lots of wires from my desktop PC, a notebook, cable modem, large mousepad, headphone amp and a DAC and I don't think I could fit a 17" wide component. So compactness is the order of the day for me too.
I've seen that before, definitely not interesting and quite overpriced but still trying to take advantage of their "reputation". My last Marantz unit was in the early 70s and didn't find it special then.
As a brand, I have to admit a love for the iconic company.
But as things stand now it appears the powers that be at D-M are attempting to push Marantz into the High End tier of current audiphool components.
Not quite as high as say the D'Agostino, Pass Labs stuff, but a acceptable alternative just below it, while Denon lives as a good blue-collar piece..
Time will tell.
Galliardist
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It's a kind of "yes and no". That amp, if it delivers what it is supposed to, with the dealer support network and warranty, as a powerful integrated amplifier, is expensive: but I wouldn't necessarily call it "audiophool". I don't like the word but I do think the spirit of it would apply to the accompanying streamer and SACD player, based on the features and the likely prices. There is always going to be a price to pay for luxury features as well as for what we might expect (and may or may not get) in terms of long term support.
I see no reason for the copper lining business though, even though in that amp it looks pretty.
I do own and appreciate the previous "Reference" products and think they were only overpriced (I got a good discount of course, and they were actually available immediately during early covid). As they are also the only electronic products I've ever bought that my wife hasn't cursed, I'm happy. I won't be upgrading to or buying the new stuff.
What I don't like is that the cheaper Marantz stereo products seem to be hobbled in terms of noise unnecessarily, to make the expensive ones look better. No need for it, let the expensive stuff live on proper build quality and power.
As an "incidentally", I believe that Denon had some more expensive products than the last Marantz ones, but available only in Japan, at the time. So they shouldn't necessarily be let off lightly - and remember their 110 Anniversary products.
multichannel_guy
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I have a Marantz PM8006 and it sounds good. I also have one of their sacd players that sounds great. A lot of Marantz products are still not that overpriced. On the other hand, a lot of Morontzz products such as D'Agostino, Mcintosh, etc are grossly overpriced and don't sound that good. A 20,000 dollar preamp from one of these Morontzz type of brands never sounded that good. I can't afford them, but, i've heard them plenty from guys who have it. Actually, i wouldn't buy them even if i could afford them. 20,000 dollars would be 4 semesters of college tuition for my teenage kid starting college soon.
Here's a guy who tested a 100,000 dollar Morontz cable vs 27 dollar ofc wire with his friends. His friends seem to prefer the 27 dollar ofc wire sound,
It would be interesting to see if his friends pick D'Agostino or Marantz, when they don't know what's behind the curtain.
How does HDAM color sound, in what form, frequency response, distortions >threshold of audibility? And which part of Amir’s measurements showed such “color”?
Just curious about your take on this, thanks.
I'm going on what Marantz says. Marantz claims that with HDAM the sound is more dynamic, defined and smoother if memory serves me correct. Then Marantz shows off stacks of the HDAM cards in surround sound receivers. If you have not seen this information then I invite you to look a little more the next time you surf Marantz HDAM... and... No I will not find the information for you.
Seem like you misunderstood my questions as I did not ask you to find any such marketing info, just your own take on the “how, why”.
As to Marantz website info, read them all long ago already, but thanks anyway.
Karls_speaker_works
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It's just an op amp buffer (in the old days it added gain) that's supposed to boost slew rate, but as you've noted, it's likely just marketing at this point.
Agreed 1000%.
OK... I apologize for being quick to type. Sorrrry...
Newest generation of Marantz products like AV-10 is the leader in transparency and measures better than other reference products in the AV space. What HDAM design does for that performance is difficult to tell, but it is safe to say that at these performance levels it practically and audibly does not matter.
What Marantz marketing says about the whole thing is a different matter. But then if you know what’s under the hood, why would you even bother to listen to the noisy and annoying salesman?
What Marantz marketing says about the whole thing is a different matter. But then if you know what’s under the hood, why would you even bother to listen to the noisy and annoying salesman?
mhardy6647
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But... but... if you know what's under the hood (which includes HDAM modules, which are presumably both active and in the signal path) and you know HDAM cannot possibly be contributing to the measured performance... wouldn't that be an interesting thing to ask the salesperson about?
I mean... now I'm curious!
Early to mid life amplifier HDAM was between the voltage gain stage and the current gain stage (The power output transistors.) Then a OP amp was used<?>and now it appears that it is a discreet transistor layout from the images that I have seen. Here are some images of various HDAM implementations from a CD player to a AV processor and integrated amplifier.
History of the HDAM modules - DutchAudioClassics.nl
DutchAudioClassics.nl - Photos and information of classic Marantz & Philips cd-players
www.dutchaudioclassics.nl
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mhardy6647
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A good question indeed. From the appearance of the image at the left side it seems the PCB might be hand assembled. <?> The solder looks to not be from a automated process.Thanks @Doodski! I had no idea...
Hand curated
What in the wide world of sports is that supposed to mean?
Galliardist
Major Contributor
Correct - a lot of the Marantz stuff was and still is hand-built or assembled. They even still do proper quality control on some models. That's one of the ways the prices get higher.
We should also be aware of the brand book written by Sound United for each of their brands that governs how they work and keep their heritage/identity. You might think that is an advertising thing, and we don't get to see the things, but I suspect using HDAM in their designs is part of the brand thing and is hobbling them. I'm sure the engineers design the products, and then decide which IC is going to be replaced with a discreet module so they get to use the HDAM name and keep their bosses happy...
mhardy6647
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ok, so in marantz-speak, curated means assembled. Got it!
I always thought it meant... well, you know... what the dictionary says it means. I am old fashioned that way, I suppose.
Kinda makes one wonder why Schiit doesn't advertise their products as curated in the US.
I always thought it meant... well, you know... what the dictionary says it means. I am old fashioned that way, I suppose.
Kinda makes one wonder why Schiit doesn't advertise their products as curated in the US.
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