I believe they all do it, just to different extent. Onkyo, Pioneer, Integra would be another example, but they did it to lesser extent.
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Is Marantz dead?
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Galliardist
Major Contributor
If you ask nicely, or just say " I can't quite afford that one" dealers everywhere will offer a discount on at least some items in their range. Those discounts will often be the same from one country to the next, so the specific case here of comparing list prices between countries will still give a reasonable comparison on international pricing.
Not always, though. Some companies like KEF are trying to get international retail pricing to match. That comes at a cost to some distributors where costs in their country are higher than others. So it is for Australia - you will get a smaller or no discount where such a policy is squeezing margins, because the costs of doing business here can be higher.
One other thing I learnt in the past - not sure how it applies so much these days - is that the discount can come out of the pocket of a salesperson being paid commission on sales. Then it is a bit of bad form - demanding a discount is a bit like not leaving a tip in a US restaurant.
Galliardist
Major Contributor
I can't resist dropping this in here...
Imitation Marantz HDAM Pure HiFi Preamp Board Fever Class A Preamp Tone Board Bile Taste Preamplifier DIY Amp Board - AliExpress
Bile taste, anyone?
Imitation Marantz HDAM Pure HiFi Preamp Board Fever Class A Preamp Tone Board Bile Taste Preamplifier DIY Amp Board - AliExpress
Bile taste, anyone?
SafeAndSound HQ
Call them up. You will see that they can often offer the same price as open box on new equipment for their D&M stuff.
Vacceo
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If there is a thing I miss in the current Marantz lineup is a CD transport. If you already have a DAC in your SR or Cinema (or any other integrated), you could keep the aesthetics and functionality while saving a couple bucks. Even in marketing terms, you'd still have the same hdams, dac and "Marantz" sound.
mhardy6647
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Whatever it may or may not do, great option for gullible Marantz fans. Great find!!
mhardy6647
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You know -- I am surprised that no entrepreneur has seized the opportunity to sell retrofit kits for HDAMs (or 8 pin DIP IC op-amps, for that matter) to take advantage of vintage vacuum tube op amps!
EDIT: I guess the module above is in some respects the polar opposite of an integrated circuit op amp... it's more of a disintegrated circuit op amp module.
EDIT: I guess the module above is in some respects the polar opposite of an integrated circuit op amp... it's more of a disintegrated circuit op amp module.
That's a good thing, lucky for those gullible people I mentioned as anyone who understands bottleneck analysis will know that the way they implement the HDAMs are total BS (in terms of the claimed benefits), but if someone would retrofit such kind of modules to eliminate the bottlenecks, then it could make sense technically/logically speaking, then the only thing would be whether the benefits would be audible.You know -- I am surprised that no entrepreneur has seized the opportunity to sell retrofit kits for HDAMs (or 8 pin DIP IC op-amps, for that matter) to take advantage of vintage vacuum tube op amps!
EDIT: I guess the module above is in some respects the polar opposite of an integrated circuit op amp... it's more of a disintegrated circuit op amp module.
Oh John, your so mean.
A quick google brought up this one, $3,199 ? I'd do some homework first before laying down my card number.
Marantz Cinema 30 For Sale | Audiogon
Marantz Cinema 30 Receivers for sale. This is the best of the best home theater receiver on the market right now!! This thing is an absolute beast ...
www.audiogon.com
I got a big discount on my latest 85" TV direct from Samsung using that one with the online chat salesperson.
High (if high enough) SINAD typically (though there are always exceptions) means transparency, when distortions and noise are low enough, with frequency response that is the easiest audible factor ruler flat, there would be virtually (again, there are always exceptions for various but rare reasons) no reasons for those often claimed (some are probably real, but many cold be bias/placebo at work as often been said..) sound signatures.
So, based on what I have seen, I would say the Cinema 30 will in fact sound the same as the AV10, A1H, and even the lower models such as the Cinema 50, AVR-X3800H under most use conditions (such as use as prepro, or as AVR when the peak "power" demand is less than 50 W or so into 8/4 ohm loads. Regardless, many people, including me, would not go with anything less than the Cinema 30, or at least the AVR-X6800H, for the better build quality, aesthetic, and the fact that they use better parts such as the DAC IC, lower tolerance resistors, caps etc., and presumable better measured SINAD.
If SQ is the only thing that matters, then the lower models could be better values, naturally.I wanted to express my view to this forum, as this is an interesting topic. I will honestly say that my evaluation of a receiver is simply to play music that I like that can reveal the capability of an amp / receiver with the source material. I've owned both Denon and Marantz over time; both have sounded good to me in the time frame I owned them.. From a measurement perspective, I can't evaluate, so this is my subjective perspective.
Denon was really the brand that brought me into higher-end audio with their 5800 many years ago. Over time, I have owned both Denon and Marantz with my last receiver being the Marantz SR7012.
Recently, I had a lightning strike my house, and it took out my Marantz SR7012 receiver along with a lot of other equipment (the amps in my Triton Reference also were replaced). So, I was brought back into the market rather abruptly. I read quite a few reviews on both Denon and Marantz current receivers and decided to take the X4800H for a test drive first; primarily because of the perceived value vs $ spent.
I have found that the best listening test for any audio system is live / two microphone recordings such as Miles Davis - Kind of Blue and/or Harry James 1976 & 1979 recording sessions by Sheffield Labs. The sound stage of these recordings is challenging for all but the best equipment and systems; so it is a great platform to evaluate equipment. When evaluating equipment this way, I find it easy to compare brand to brand or model to model using these recordings; the differences aren't subtle.
The rest of my system: Gold Ear Triton Reference, Primare A30.5 5 channel amp, Oppo UDP-203 disc transport.
My first test was to listen to the X4800H using it's built-in amplifiers. On Harry James recording, what I found was a very muddy sound stage. The sound field of the cymbals on the drums did not "rise" on the back of the stage. The piano is muted along with the base Cello. Instrument position on the stage was not precise. I wasn't sitting in the church with Harry James and his band. My older Marantz SR7012 sounded much better to me under the same conditions. I then connected my Primare amplifier, and listened to the same tracks. Much better, although there was still a lack of vibrancy and a sound stage that was .....muddy.... and not revealing what the recording was fully capable of reproducing. I had read about the AKM Fire which caused the DAC changes in the X4800H vs SR7012. I was starting to think that I was hearing these differences when using X4800H as preamp. I returned the X4800H. I decided to buy the Marantz Cinema 30 vs the Cinema 40 to get the better DACs and hopefully better amplifiers. I connected the Cinema 30 as preamp with the Primare for this test and played the same Harry James recordings. Finally, the vibrancy I was looking for with accurate stage placement had returned from my SR7012. The Cinema 30, I believe, sounds a step above the SR7012; as it should. But the X4800H sounded a good step below both Marantz receivers on the source material I listened to. Here is reality: I wanted the Denon X4800H to work out because of the lower price. However in my listening tests, it just didn't stand up to my older SR7012, little less than the Cinema 30.
I haven't tested the Cinema 30 amplifiers yet. That is to come. I'm hoping for a much better experience than the built-in amps of the X4800H.
So, is Marantz dead? I don't think so. In the discussions on this thread, other posts mention the Marantz sound, warm sound, coloring, etc. I'm not sure that I'm hearing this. I did play around with both DAC filters and really did not hear a difference. However, the Cinema 30 and my previous SR7012 both gave me a more pronounced feeling of "being there" vs my listening test on the X4800H. Was this difference the AKM vs TI Dacs, something else? HDAM? Maybe the X6800H would have made a better more equivalent test. However, the difference in costs versus the better amplifier section of the Cinema 30 was the driving factor for choosing the Cinema 30 vs X6800H.
Denon was really the brand that brought me into higher-end audio with their 5800 many years ago. Over time, I have owned both Denon and Marantz with my last receiver being the Marantz SR7012.
Recently, I had a lightning strike my house, and it took out my Marantz SR7012 receiver along with a lot of other equipment (the amps in my Triton Reference also were replaced). So, I was brought back into the market rather abruptly. I read quite a few reviews on both Denon and Marantz current receivers and decided to take the X4800H for a test drive first; primarily because of the perceived value vs $ spent.
I have found that the best listening test for any audio system is live / two microphone recordings such as Miles Davis - Kind of Blue and/or Harry James 1976 & 1979 recording sessions by Sheffield Labs. The sound stage of these recordings is challenging for all but the best equipment and systems; so it is a great platform to evaluate equipment. When evaluating equipment this way, I find it easy to compare brand to brand or model to model using these recordings; the differences aren't subtle.
The rest of my system: Gold Ear Triton Reference, Primare A30.5 5 channel amp, Oppo UDP-203 disc transport.
My first test was to listen to the X4800H using it's built-in amplifiers. On Harry James recording, what I found was a very muddy sound stage. The sound field of the cymbals on the drums did not "rise" on the back of the stage. The piano is muted along with the base Cello. Instrument position on the stage was not precise. I wasn't sitting in the church with Harry James and his band. My older Marantz SR7012 sounded much better to me under the same conditions. I then connected my Primare amplifier, and listened to the same tracks. Much better, although there was still a lack of vibrancy and a sound stage that was .....muddy.... and not revealing what the recording was fully capable of reproducing. I had read about the AKM Fire which caused the DAC changes in the X4800H vs SR7012. I was starting to think that I was hearing these differences when using X4800H as preamp. I returned the X4800H. I decided to buy the Marantz Cinema 30 vs the Cinema 40 to get the better DACs and hopefully better amplifiers. I connected the Cinema 30 as preamp with the Primare for this test and played the same Harry James recordings. Finally, the vibrancy I was looking for with accurate stage placement had returned from my SR7012. The Cinema 30, I believe, sounds a step above the SR7012; as it should. But the X4800H sounded a good step below both Marantz receivers on the source material I listened to. Here is reality: I wanted the Denon X4800H to work out because of the lower price. However in my listening tests, it just didn't stand up to my older SR7012, little less than the Cinema 30.
I haven't tested the Cinema 30 amplifiers yet. That is to come. I'm hoping for a much better experience than the built-in amps of the X4800H.
So, is Marantz dead? I don't think so. In the discussions on this thread, other posts mention the Marantz sound, warm sound, coloring, etc. I'm not sure that I'm hearing this. I did play around with both DAC filters and really did not hear a difference. However, the Cinema 30 and my previous SR7012 both gave me a more pronounced feeling of "being there" vs my listening test on the X4800H. Was this difference the AKM vs TI Dacs, something else? HDAM? Maybe the X6800H would have made a better more equivalent test. However, the difference in costs versus the better amplifier section of the Cinema 30 was the driving factor for choosing the Cinema 30 vs X6800H.
They're just about the same across the board (no power advantage). You paid more for the nicer Marantz exterior and questionable advantages of HDAM.
Marantz Cinema 30 vs Denon AVR-X6800H: Comprehensive Comparison
Compare the Marantz Cinema 30 and Denon AVR-X6800H. Discover the differences in features, specs, performance, and find out which A/V receiver is the best for you.
www.zkelectronics.com
Just seems like a poor methodology for comparison at best.
paulcc
Member
I wonder if the SINAD of the Cinema 50 is better than the somewhat mediocre performance of the Denon AVR x3800?
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I think it's the same architecture in the design.
I would imagine it's identical since they would have the same DACs!
Ouch, sorry to hear about that.
I went thru much the same around 2 years back. I lost my Marantz AV7703, the server computer, and a bunch more costing me very close to $10k in total.
Crap like that hurts and the insurance didn't step up for it either, gear too old, computer home built, etc.
Humm, now what could be the cause of that? IMHO your placing way too much confidence in your hearing memory over time. These kinds of differences when they actually exist can only be reliably detected under blind, side by side, with instant switching capabilities. I use a Denon X4700H as a preamp driving my stack of 5 Adcom amps, the same arrangement the Marantz 7703 Pre/pro used, and it sounds identical to me. As Chrispy has already mentioned, it's more likely your listening mythologies introducing the believed differences than anything. In the main, any audible differences between these units should be extremely subtle and only reliably detectable using the very best bias controled blind comparison technologies.
Cheers
The C50 may measure a few dB better but someone has yet to send one to Amir. The C40 did measure a little better than the X4800H and that's the first time Marantz got better results than Denon on ASR.
The SR7015 measured much worse than the x4700h, and the SR7012 should performed very similar because the design and parts used are virtually the same.
So there are no explanations for the SR7012 to sound audibly better than the X4800H based on objective specs and measurements. Yes it has the AK4458 dac IC that has better SINAD specs, but it measured about 15 dB higher in distortions + noise than the X4800H regardless, likely because of the HDAMs (improved versions used in the Cinema series). Note that it wasn't just SINAD, the Denon's also measured better than the SR7015, 6014, AV7705 in IMD, FR and other metrics iirc.
Lots of Marantz users (not all obviously) reported that they felt Marantz sounded better than Denon, iirc, 100% of them relied on their subjective measurements and memory.
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