Is lossy outdated in 2019 & onwards?

[Blujackaal]

It does cover almost all music without issues, that's why people don't care or defend it as being transparent is the vast majority of cases.

I'm open to being wrong though if the majority of people can pass tests comparing high quality lossy streaming codecs with lossless stuff:

http://abx.digitalfeed.net/list.html

Musepack the only one that can do that but Hydrogenaudio ignores it because of it almost no support. They get very sore when 192kbps MPC can beat AAC/Opus and got sore MPC despite no tuning at 128kbps was beating early AAC/Vorbis.

 

[stevenswall]

What are all the pictures you see in your web browser?

Static, non-streaming content that loads after a few seconds and doesn't seem to need adaptive bitrate.

 

[q3cpma]

Static, non-streaming content that loads after a few seconds and doesn't seem to need adaptive bitrate.

I don't think we have the same definition of streaming. Here it's downloaded on demand and deleted/garbage collected soon after "use".

I mean, what's the difference between images and the movie that is watched through something like Netflix, except the size?

 

[MRC01]

...I mean, what's the difference between images and the movie that is watched through something like Netflix, except the size?

Images in the browser are not real-time. The browser issues a call to fetch the resource and it loads. If your connection is slow, it simply takes longer. It doesn't switch to a lower res image. And it doesn't skip it entirely. People with a slow connection see the same high res image, it just takes longer.

The movie is rendered in real-time and has corresponding changes in how it handles slow connections. If it's taking too long, it automatically switches to a lower res version of the same resource. And if that's not enough, it will skip frames. People with a slow connection see a different low-res version of the movie.

 

[q3cpma]

Images in the browser are not real-time.

Like videos, they are kind of soft real time, i.e. any latency under what the user is used to or under the threshold of perception produces (possibly subconscious) discontent.

The browser issues a call to fetch the resource and it loads. If your connection is slow, it simply takes longer. It doesn't switch to a lower res image. And it doesn't skip it entirely. People with a slow connection see the same high res image, it just takes longer.

The movie is rendered in real-time and has corresponding changes in how it handles slow connections. If it's taking too long, it automatically switches to a lower res version of the same resource. And if that's not enough, it will skip frames. People with a slow connection see a different low-res version of the movie.

Streaming is just a buzzword for downloading something that is viewed in real time. So yeah, it's a stretch to use for images, but static bandwidth management like resolution would still make a lot of sense.

Note that progressive image coding makes the difference even smaller.

 

[MRC01]

... Streaming is just a buzzword for downloading something that is viewed in real time. ...

Streaming is that, but it is not just that. Streaming implies algorithms that automatically and constantly detect the network bandwidth change or reduce the quality of the resource (music, video, etc.) accordingly.

Put differently: if I download a song, I expect it to be bit-perfect in its native format even if I have a slow connection. If it's big, like uncompressed 192-24, it will take longer but I will still get a bit-perfect copy. If I stream a song, I expect to get a lower quality version of it if I have slow connection.

 

[Julf]

Streaming is that, but it is not just that. Streaming implies algorithms that automatically and constantly detect the network bandwidth change or reduce the quality of the resource (music, video, etc.) accordingly.

Put differently: if I download a song, I expect it to be bit-perfect in its native format even if I have a slow connection. If it's big, like uncompressed 192-24, it will take longer but I will still get a bit-perfect copy. If I stream a song, I expect to get a lower quality version of it if I have slow connection.

That is not the definition of streaming - that is just how some streaming services deal with bandwidth issues.

 

[q3cpma]

Streaming is that, but it is not just that. Streaming implies algorithms that automatically and constantly detect the network bandwidth change or reduce the quality of the resource (music, video, etc.) accordingly.

Not in my vocabulary, these are solutions to problems usually associated with streaming, nothing more. A bit like saying that a car isn't one without ABS.

 

[MRC01]

That is not the definition of streaming - that is just how some streaming services deal with bandwidth issues.

Not in my vocabulary, these are solutions to problems usually associated with streaming, nothing more. A bit like saying that a car isn't one without ABS.

No offense intended, but these views strike me as pedantic.
I didn't say this was the definition of streaming, I said this is what streaming implies. By that I mean the common usage of the term, or how I (and I think most people) perceive the difference between "downloading" something and "streaming" it.
I've actually heard people using the example I gave: as in, "I downloaded the movie to get the full 4k resolution, even though it took 6 hours, I got getter playback quality than streaming it."

 

[q3cpma]

No offense intended, but these views strike me as pedantic.
I didn't say this was the definition of streaming, I said this is what streaming implies. By that I mean the common usage of the term, or how I (and I think most people) perceive the difference between "downloading" something and "streaming" it.
I've actually heard people using the example I gave: as in, "I downloaded the movie to get the full 4k resolution, even though it took 6 hours, I got getter playback quality than streaming it."

I'm pretty sure people would use the word "streaming" even without the adaptive bandwidth management features.

Anyway, my original point is that some kind of bitrate peeling wouldn't be that useless with images; something that some sites like Mangadex already do by providing low quality images if the user wants to save bandwidth.

 

[Julf]

No offense intended, but these views strike me as pedantic.

I think the correct term is "engineers"

I didn't say this was the definition of streaming, I said this is what streaming implies.

But streaming very specifically *doesn't* imply that. The fact that some people think of it that way without knowing what they talk about is irrelevant.

 

[JW001]

No need to argue - "streaming" is a loosely defined term. It doesn't imply any specific technology - easy to implement at home for a single user or two, the complexity growing when we move to large territorial coverage and hundreds of thousands of simultaneous users, where technologies like proximity routing, caching and load management need to be applied.