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Is it true that having both a solid-state amp and a tube amp offers the best of both worlds?

When I had my main system set up, the speakers were biamped using a solid state amp on the woofer and a tube amp on the mid and tweeter, also using a Counterpoint tube pre-amp. In those days I was convinced that the solid state amp sounded "harsh" used full range. I do not bother now, not believing that to be true. I can't even imagine the switching I would need to A/B it.
 
Have to say that I only use my VTL ST-85 in the winter now.
I do like the sound of it, and I actually use it as a source of heat too as I don't heat my living room otherwise. All good.
 
hex168 said:
When I had my main system set up, the speakers were biamped using a solid state amp on the woofer and a tube amp on the mid and tweeter, also using a Counterpoint tube pre-amp. In those days I was convinced that the solid state amp sounded "harsh" used full range. I do not bother now, not believing that to be true. I can't even imagine the switching I would need to A/B it.
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Fun fact: that method is almost exactly what an Exciter does. Add harmonic distortion only to mids and highs.

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Tube biamping is essentially the same psychoacoustic method used in music production everywhere. Small wonder so many people like it, even if they don't understand what's going on.
 
Indeed. Reckon you should always offload bass to either SS or subs.
Running valves is definitely costly per Watt.

My main summer/daily driver amp is now a Topping Mini 300.
Plenty of power for my living room.
(Speaker Sensitivity: 100db. Plus 2x 400W subs)
 
I'd stay away from tubes. They're just not affordable for us ordinary folk since OpenAI & Co started using them to run their LLMs. I suppose it was only natural that after sucking up all the available GPUs, RAM, SSDs and HDDs that they would eventually stumble upon the magic of tubes. Sam Altman himself said "there's no doubt that ChatGPT running on vintage tubes is an amazing combination, offering deep and tight control of the tokens, alongside rich buttery-smooth inference and simply unmatched warmth of output". His wife agrees.

*I sometimes make mistakes. Always double check my posts to satisfy yourself that they are accurate and free from error.
 
In response to those who think that $800 per year on tubes is not needed you are correct. If you are into tubes then you start to want to try different ones and necessity is not part of the equation. And I'm in Australia which does mean paying more most of the time. In buying into Purifi I'm saving myself from myself.
 
Here's historical perspective: I was around a group of golden-eared audiophiles back in the mid/late '60's through mid '70's. They (not I - I was a pauper) had the wherewithal to buy pretty much anything they wanted and did on a regular basis.

Back then, there were often obvious differences in preamps and power amps. Tube equipment and SS equipment were transitioning from adequate consumer goods to audiophile specialty items. Sometimes it was fairly easy to separate the wheat from the chaff; other times, not so much.

Many of the tube equipment manufacturers had never been challenged to design truly first rate electronics. And, most of the SS manufacturers were looking to supply inexpensive power, never mind the quality as long as nothing self-destructed.

A very few companies - both tube and SS - had already built reputations for quality products. There were still differences - sometimes subtle - in their sounds. One of my friends used to say he wished he could find a balance between the "warmth" of tubes and the "clinical sterility" of SS.

During that period, a lot of new players entered the market. Tubes soon lost some of the distortions that made them overly warm and SS began to mellow a bit. Another of my friends claimed the best of both worlds were some of the newly designed tube preamps and some of the SS power amps from new entries in the audiophile market.

Today, I seriously doubt that it matters. A properly designed tube preamp or power amp should be neutral in character. Same holds true for properly designed SS equipment. But the concept of warmth of tube sound and sterility of SS sound still persists.

Then, there's Schitt: I don't remember the model but they had a HP amp or preamp (?) that had 2 tubes in the circuit. They offered several options, including a "SS non-tube" if you didn't want tubes or just wanted to play with subtle changes in sound character - kind of like rolling op-amps.
 
I plan to buy a tube amp eventually as well to try with either my headphones or my speakers to see what it's like.
 
Yes tubes are the opposite of transparent.

But some enjoy them as a pleasant distortion effect.

My advice is to build your core system investing in transparent accuracy as your default baseline. Put most money into top quality speakers, add strong but clean bass - that and room correction make a HUGE difference.

Then, if you want to test the tube world, start out with a $99 Schiit Buf at line level, just turn off to clean bypass anytime.

There are many tubes that fit, many more with adapters, they all affect the sound (away from accuracy) differently.

Yes you can spend stupid-money, but no need for that to get started.

If you enjoy these distortions you can then progress to tube amplifiers. There are cheap ones, but for the pricey stuff

find dealers that will let you test them at home before committing.
 
Chanur said:
I plan to buy a tube amp eventually as well to try with either my headphones or my speakers to see what it's like.
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Just don't expect anything.

I've had a hybrid amp for 20 years, Vincent SV-226MK. Apart from the tube preamp (3x 12AX7), it was just a beefy oldschool AB amp of the chunky kind, oversized transformer and stuff and 2x200W.

Didn't sound any different to the old "my first Sony" amp I had used before, except at ludicrous volume when that one gave up, or the Hypex 252 I have now.

Because the tube stage was properly designed with its only weakness being a tad bit noisy.

That's the thing: tube pre stages can be audibly transparent when done properly, which is what you want - and then there's no point really because a regular transistor stage does the same, only better for cheaper.

If you want audible distortion, go for actual effects units on which you can adjust the level of distortion. That actually makes sense from a playing around and tinkering point of view, but not from a high fidelity one.
 
wadude said:
Bet it was fun while you were into it! What speakers did you dig the most with that system
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I used the VTLs exclusively with my Klipsch La Scala's

JiiPee said:
That's a great set, but I think that prices for good new tube power amps are so high that getting the tube-glow + "ASR approved sound quality" is achieved at cheaper price with a tube pre-amp + class D power amp combo
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Simply a matter of opinion. To me if I am going to live with all of tubes weaknesses next to SS, I'd want it to be something I can see. Sighted bias is real and runs both ways. LOL

antcollinet said:
I'm no expert - but I very much doubt a tube pre amp will have the same distortion characteristic as a tube power amp. Thats even if either of them have audible distortion.
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Agreed, thy will never match todays SS distortion figures, let alone noise or reliability factors.

MatrixS2000 said:
If you want transparent why bother with tubes???
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BINGO !
 
Ropeburn said:
Just don't expect anything.

I've had a hybrid amp for 20 years, Vincent SV-226MK. Apart from the tube preamp (3x 12AX7), it was just a beefy oldschool AB amp of the chunky kind, oversized transformer and stuff and 2x200W.

Didn't sound any different to the old "my first Sony" amp I had used before, except at ludicrous volume when that one gave up, or the Hypex 252 I have now.

Because the tube stage was properly designed with its only weakness being a tad bit noisy.

That's the thing: tube pre stages can be audibly transparent when done properly, which is what you want - and then there's no point really because a regular transistor stage does the same, only better for cheaper.

If you want audible distortion, go for actual effects units on which you can adjust the level of distortion. That actually makes sense from a playing around and tinkering point of view, but not from a high fidelity one.
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So tubes really don't sound any different than a Solid State amp? I know they can be made to sound transparent but I assumed most tube amps were not going to that , as it is just a worse amp then.
 
Chanur said:
So tubes really don't sound any different than a Solid State amp? I know they can be made to sound transparent but I assumed most tube amps were not going to that , as it is just a worse amp then.
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Of course some of them do. Tube amps vary from some flea powered SET's all the way up to 250W Audio Research monsters, so we have to specify what we are talking about here. If we take that 8W SET and compare it to a 500W Class D amp, it will for sure sound different. That 8W SET will struggle with the impedance load of some speakers and produce a spray of harmonic distortion, and you will surely hear that. It may even sound pleasing. But if you compare that 250W Audio Research to a 250W solid state amp and ask it to drive an easy load, you would struggle to hear the difference.
 
It's more difficult to make a high-powered tube amp that is transparent than to make a similarly high-powered SS amp. With low-powered tube amps, piece of cake. Similarly, tube preamps with great transparency are not that difficult to design. So, if you want to experiment with tubes, that's where to go: tube preamp and tube power amp driving Klipsch corner horns (a 5 watt signal can be heard in the next county - I'm exaggerating, slightly).
 
Does having a bamboo fly rod and a graphite fly rod give you the best of both worlds? Only if you think so. Pretty much any tube amp will have far more distortion, so the question is will that distortion and lower SINAD be a factor for you and your ears?
 
Or .... when you like the illusion of having the 'warm analog sound' tube aficionados can't stop raving about helped by the wonderful orange glow.
Placebo or not this is what draws people to 'tubes'....
~~~~~ tube magic ~~~~~
 
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