With all those beautifully engineered knobs, dials, switches, and pretty lights, how can it not. **
Seriously it is a very handsome beast.
** I recently bought one of these, I swear the Sinad of my system has improved by at least 20dB
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Is it true that having both a solid-state amp and a tube amp offers the best of both worlds?
- Thread starter ilgeek
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Seriously it is a very handsome beast.
** I recently bought one of these, I swear the Sinad of my system has improved by at least 20dB
Keith_W
Master Contributor
With all those beautifully engineered knobs, dials, switches, and pretty lights, how can it not. **
Seriously it is a very handsome beast.
** I recently bought one of these, I swear the Sinad of my system has improved by at least 20dB
View attachment 479503
That looks like a Cylon is looking at your sideways. Or an accessory to make your car look like KITT.
Bob from Florida
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You already have a good DAC/Amp, however, if you want a "Made in USA" setup using tubes - below is a solid suggestion.Hi everyone,
As the title suggests, I recently came across several YouTube videos discussing this audio paradigm.
I’ve just purchased the Meze Empyrean II headphones along with the JDS Labs DAC/amp, and the combination is fantastic. I followed recommendations from this forum to make my choice, but now I’m starting to wonder—should I aim for something more, or do all amps sound similar?
I reached out to the Meze team for suggestions on the best audio setup within a limited budget of $1,500 USD. They responded with a few recommendations:
1. Schiit Valhalla 3 + Schiit Bifrost
2. Feliks Audio Echo MK II + Topping E70
3. Burson Conductor 3X Performance
One of these options features a tube amplifier, which piqued my interest. I began exploring and found the Cayin brand and their HA-2A and HA-3A models. Has anyone had experience with these?
I appreciate any recommendations, experiences, or insights you might have on this topic.
Cheers!
DAC Schiit Modi -$129
Schiit Audio: Audio Products Made in USA
www.schiit.com
Headphone Amplifier – Quicksilver Audio
quicksilveraudio.com
The Quicksilver headphone amp is spec'ed at <.01% distortion above 30 ohms. I doubt you will hear any distortion. Unlike high power tube amps for speakers, this one uses inexpensive EL84 output tubes. As long as you don't buy into the New Old Stock tubes nonsense - this is a solid cost effective combo.
Another approach to the topic is just following the historical timeline and make a choice.
A CD prototype was anounced mid 70s. Which paved the way to a more 'true to reel master' producers craved. And in some way it also shaped the 80s in music as bands and producers already wanted their tracks to be demo'd for the CD to launch.
A track like 'you're not alone' by 20cc was kind of one of the "demos" that along shaped the 80s in digital inspired music. It was transparant, bright, clean and smooth. Like glass. Bit like the CD in its optical form itself. And amplifier manufacturers followed in those signatures along with pop music. Everything became like this, even (Smooth) Jazz got there. Every producer wanted to have a showroom demo that sounded polished as diamond.
So looking through the eyes of time. Get a sterile amp for 'some' mid 70s music and all the 80s That is about right. And get a tube amp for everything till the 70s and all revival music.
Could go through more periods, but in any time it was seeing where the ball was going in what defined amp signatures
Back to the current reality of everything goes. Just do what you please in general.. there is not really a wrong or right here.
A CD prototype was anounced mid 70s. Which paved the way to a more 'true to reel master' producers craved. And in some way it also shaped the 80s in music as bands and producers already wanted their tracks to be demo'd for the CD to launch.
A track like 'you're not alone' by 20cc was kind of one of the "demos" that along shaped the 80s in digital inspired music. It was transparant, bright, clean and smooth. Like glass. Bit like the CD in its optical form itself. And amplifier manufacturers followed in those signatures along with pop music. Everything became like this, even (Smooth) Jazz got there. Every producer wanted to have a showroom demo that sounded polished as diamond.
So looking through the eyes of time. Get a sterile amp for 'some' mid 70s music and all the 80s
That is about right. And get a tube amp for everything till the 70s and all revival music.Could go through more periods, but in any time it was seeing where the ball was going in what defined amp signatures
Back to the current reality of everything goes. Just do what you please in general.. there is not really a wrong or right here.
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My adventures in stereo
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You have piqued my interest
Post pictures, would like to see your rig
Curupira
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Agree with everything but the imitating the source gear from the era. There's nothing wrong with getting tube amplifiers if you like the looks or the technology itself, but I don't think the sound would translate as well in regards to quality.Another approach to the topic is just following the historical timeline and make a choice.
A CD prototype was anounced mid 70s. Which paved the way to a more 'true to reel master' producers craved. And in some way it also shaped the 80s in music as bands and producers already wanted their tracks to be demo'd for the CD to launch.
A track like 'you're not alone' by 20cc was kind of one of the "demos" that along shaped the 80s in digital inspired music. It was transparant, bright, clean and smooth. Like glass. Bit like the CD in its optical form itself. And amplifier manufacturers followed in those signatures along with pop music. Everything became like this, even (Smooth) Jazz got there. Every producer wanted to have a showroom demo that sounded polished as diamond.
So looking through the eyes of time. Get a sterile amp for 'some' mid 70s music and all the 80s
Could go through more periods, but in any time it was seeing where the ball was going in what defined amp signatures
Back to the current reality of everything goes. Just do what you please in general.. there is not really a wrong or right here.
The "glassy" timbre of 80s music is a very interesting phenomena exactly because it was purposeful and "artificial", it has more to do with mastering and tone control than with the technology behind the amplification or digital conversion. A "glassy" song from that time will still sound the same if you use the better built tube amplifiers of today.
I think most people wouldn't be able to identify a tube amplifier if output impedance and high noise (like with iems) weren't telling factors: the harmonic distortion present in most solutions, even those measured on this site, are hard to spot for an untrained ear. Myself, for one, have difficulty telling my Little Dot MK3's sound apart from my MD Dawn's pro or my FiiO BTR3k's, and both solutions have better SINAD than the CD redbook standard. The only instances that makes it dead easy is when it's tubes make noise (like, all the time), bump the low end of my dynamic headphones or suffer from severe channel imbalance.
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For sure. It was the choice in tone, texture, mixing and mastering and there is no doubt about it doing indistinguishable well on a modern tube amp.
It was just a new circle of a trend those days. When color tv was launched, nature programs could show vivid color. The difference is not that huge in audio, but when the CD was in te pipeline, solid state followed it as the new best marketing thing and the clear colder voicing connected in the trend.
Sterility in tone suits with how people saw a CD, literally, as a polished disc other than dusty popping sound of vinyl of the majority.
The early obsession with cleanliness. And voicing of solid state amps, at least for a period seemed to also be moving along with the trend for pop music specifically. It all pushed each other into a new direction. And that direction went on for a while. The whole chain of changes is also one of the many reasons why CD's are being remembered as sterile sounding.
This is most likely why till points in the 70s solid state amps were kind of voiced like the tube amps of those days and why manufacturers went on the bandwagon after, leaving tubes and tube voicing slowly behind as it was associated with the previous age of vinyl.
You are very right here.
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Skeptical_Aus
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I had two amps and a Fosi switcher that allowed comparison. One was a March P262 Purifi based amp, the other a Weston Acoustics Tempest (a hand built work of art running 6sn7GTA NOS 1960 Sylvania tubes in the preamp and kt120 push pull as power). The main difference was in the bass region, the March having more control. At low volume the two sounded identical.
I loved the look of the tube amp, and so did my wife. But I have a brain that works logically and tubes cost about $800 per year and are getting more costly. So I sold the tube amp (and my horn loaded speakers). The March Amp I have now is just a black box that does its job very well.
New tech outperforms old technology in reliability, efficiency and durability. Now I can finally forget the gear and just listen. I might one day by a cheap tube amp just as sculpture.
I loved the look of the tube amp, and so did my wife. But I have a brain that works logically and tubes cost about $800 per year and are getting more costly. So I sold the tube amp (and my horn loaded speakers). The March Amp I have now is just a black box that does its job very well.
New tech outperforms old technology in reliability, efficiency and durability. Now I can finally forget the gear and just listen. I might one day by a cheap tube amp just as sculpture.
In principle Yes - The tube-ss hybrid can provide the best of both worlds solution, but only if we take into account also the subjective aesthetics and not only the sound quality. For people who prefer the visual soft glow of tubes, a combination of a well-designed tube preamp + a solid state power amp can provide both the desired looks and sound quality without costing as much as a pure tube amplifier, especially if relatively high power is required.
??? When I went that route, I preferred to have monoblock tube power amps with their big honkin high-power beam tetrode tubes and transformers in view. At night with the lights out, those big suckers with their blue fluorescence dancing inside the bulb can be hypnotizing. LOL
On the Preamp side I used a noiseless, totally trouble free passive unit.
That's a great set, but I think that prices for good new tube power amps are so high that getting the tube-glow + "ASR approved sound quality" is achieved at cheaper price with a tube pre-amp + class D power amp combo
wadude
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Bet it was fun while you were into it! What speakers did you dig the most with that system?
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Schiit Valhalla 3 is specifically designed to sound tubey, and it seems to do this very well:
But the Schiit product which really interests me is the 99 USD Buf, which is a cute little distortion box which you can use with any amplifier, and best of all, it has a handy bypass switch, so you can have genuine tubey tube sound when you want it, or accurate sound when you don't. Am tempted to get one myself.
But the Schiit product which really interests me is the 99 USD Buf, which is a cute little distortion box which you can use with any amplifier, and best of all, it has a handy bypass switch, so you can have genuine tubey tube sound when you want it, or accurate sound when you don't. Am tempted to get one myself.
I'm no expert - but I very much doubt a tube pre amp will have the same distortion characteristic as a tube power amp. Thats even if either of them have audible distortion.
An older valve preamp coupled with a great class D is a great way to get the best of both worlds if you really pay attention. I use a Mcintosh C11 and C20 coupled with Nord NC500 oems MB. Wonderful sound. The biggest drawback is the remote and the inherent crosstalk between sources in older preamps like these. The great part is the excellent tone controls, in both cases, and a serious bass countour/variable loudness option few preamps have. Yahamah is a good one BUT they are SS, and you have to go the other way around. SS pre and valve power amps.
I'm not a huge fan of valve power amps doing sub/bass duty, but bi-amping is a true thing of beauty when done well using valves for mids/highs and SS for sub/bass duty.
I have newer Mcintosh valve preamps too (C2500), but don't confuse discrete circuits mixed with valve to be anything even remotely similar to the older analog preamps. They just aren't.
I sent the Schiit Freya+ back, a worthless pile of heat, to tell the truth. It offered absolutely no benefit to the sound. I add valves to color the sound, not to add heat to a room. No tone controls, you might as well add a passive preamp. Straight wire with gain has never helped a poor recording/mix.
Even the newer C2500 the wife uses has great tone controls with variable trim/loudness. It's a great unit with all kinds of options, especially when biamped using Cary V12Rs for mids/highs coupled with Nord class D doing sub/bass duty. Great remote control too, stuffed with fingertip options.
Regards
Holy hell, can you elaborate? You need a new set of tubes every year? Even power tubes should last a few years at least, should they not?
My guitar amp is a valve amp. It has a nice tone.
But this way of doing things is becoming out date.
A lot of people with guitars are going towards using low-cost, high power clean Class-D amps, and using modellers to create "valve sound" and saving money and getting more flexibility.
Pedals, usually creating over-drive distortion have been around for maybe 60 years (analogue pedals) but this is increasingly being done with DSPs - I have a cheap Valeton one myself (not great sound, but very good for £65).
All this is known.
My suggestion is to take a leaf from the guitar world - for audio, why not use an app, or plugin or even a little hardware unit to model valves? You could buy one clean amp, and for almost nothing, get valve sound without needing to own two amps.
Also - $800 for valves? They saw you coming!*
Unless you play cricket in your listening room, valves can last a long time - they usually just stop when they have had enough. Unless you mis-bias them, or force gain differences between stages, they sound the same, brand to brand There are probably 6 types in common use, and a given type is meant to be interchangeable.
*see my recent post somewhere on here:
But this way of doing things is becoming out date.
A lot of people with guitars are going towards using low-cost, high power clean Class-D amps, and using modellers to create "valve sound" and saving money and getting more flexibility.
Pedals, usually creating over-drive distortion have been around for maybe 60 years (analogue pedals) but this is increasingly being done with DSPs - I have a cheap Valeton one myself (not great sound, but very good for £65).
All this is known.
My suggestion is to take a leaf from the guitar world - for audio, why not use an app, or plugin or even a little hardware unit to model valves? You could buy one clean amp, and for almost nothing, get valve sound without needing to own two amps.
Also - $800 for valves? They saw you coming!*
Unless you play cricket in your listening room, valves can last a long time - they usually just stop when they have had enough. Unless you mis-bias them, or force gain differences between stages, they sound the same, brand to brand There are probably 6 types in common use, and a given type is meant to be interchangeable.
*see my recent post somewhere on here:
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Roland68
Master Contributor
You might find this amusing, but—just as in many other fields—a great deal of knowledge has been lost when it comes to the manufacturing of vacuum tubes.
Their quality and longevity are nowhere near as good as they used to be.
In a different century, we used to manufacture, recycle, and refurbish vacuum tubes for television broadcasters, radio stations, professional audio applications, and the like. When demand for them virtually vanished in the 1980s, this entire production division was shut down, and surplus products and materials were destroyed—items that would be worth a fortune today.
Since then, most of the people possessing this specialized expertise have passed away or are no longer available; furthermore, many of the necessary materials can no longer be adequately produced today, as the knowledge required to create them has been lost as well.
Consequently, genuine vintage vacuum tubes from that era now trade for four-figure sums in dollars or euros—and prices continue to rise.