Is it possible to be honest and a successful Hi-Fi salesperson?

[Galliardist]

I was thankfully too poor to get exposed to the full force of UK hifi sales in the 70s when I made my first purchases - but I could easily imagine that sketch being close to the truth. In those days, specialist shops seemed to mostly exist for the convenience of the staff, not the customer. They had "early closing" on Wednesdays for reasons that I could never fully comprehend. Except that computers didn't exist at all outside large companies and universities (and not much at that!), so everything had to be done by hand.

Well, I was a poor student when I made my first trip into a UK hifi store. I preferred the "wrong" turntable in their opening demo and was promptly shown the door! That company didn't stay in business long, fortunately.

 

[Mr. Widget]

... was that during hifi-boom?

I have never worked in the classic 2 channel hi-fi shop, I have always been in the custom install side of the biz which has been in a constant state of "boom" in our area except for a slight dip after the 2008 crash. In our area that recession was fairly short lived and we were quickly back off to the races.

I do see your point though. Since we have been so busy designing and installing systems, there is no need to lower oneself to the cheap tactics that some salesman are famous for. That said, I do know some salesmen in our line who are completely unethical.

 

[steve59]

The mid to hi end dealers near me stock wire upgrades, but don't promote them.

 

[Westsounds]

Anyone trying to sell you something is technically dishonest. And that could even fall into someone giving something away. As giving stuff away could mean something they dont want, making room for themselves or to make them feel good in some way. Scientifically speaking there is no such thing as an ethical business. Ethical businesses may be a thing but they don't survive, businesses survive only if they are profitable.

 

[TTT15]

The dealers I use have been honest with me. Telling me what will make a difference and what won’t like another DAC and recommending trying active speakers and Dan Clark headphones but they also listen to me, are friendly and not absolute in their views, acknowledging that there are different personal preferences and to ultimately listen and decide for myself. They get my future business.

 

[SSS]

Long time ago I was selling hifi-stereo systems as part time job during study electrical engineering. Since I was already an electronic technichian I knew the technical details of the gear. Some customers were interested in these details, others not which followed my recommendations. Personally I was honest to them. During my work in sales offices as technical consultant I met and worked with several sales men/women. Since part of their salery was revenue related they of course looked for a good deal. And I can say they were honest but also they didn't understand all technical details of the systems sold. My understanding is that full blown sales persons are just looking for the revenue they can get and are not so interested in technical details. So what they sell to a customer is done honestly but may not be the perfect solution.

 

[pinger]

Anyone trying to sell you something is technically dishonest. And that could even fall into someone giving something away. As giving stuff away could mean something they dont want, making room for themselves or to make them feel good in some way. Scientifically speaking there is no such thing as an ethical business. Ethical businesses may be a thing but they don't survive, businesses survive only if they are profitable.

You paint with a pretty wide brush!

 

[ahofer]

Anyone trying to sell you something is technically dishonest. And that could even fall into someone giving something away. As giving stuff away could mean something they dont want, making room for themselves or to make them feel good in some way. Scientifically speaking there is no such thing as an ethical business. Ethical businesses may be a thing but they don't survive, businesses survive only if they are profitable.

Implicit, or even explicit, in what you are saying is that the profit motive and ethics are mutually exclusive. I strenuously disagree. Many of us built business around products we genuinely think filled a need and are better than the alternatives in many situations. Furthermore, in more relationship businesses (as opposed to transactional) you need to behave ethically to keep the customer over time. I’ve told many customers to buy competing products for specific needs. That’s one reason they keep us where we fit (they all have multiple vendors in my space). But I do have mostly institutional customers, who have staff whose job it is to evaluate us carefully.

Now if you have monopoly power, that’s a huge moral hazard i agree. In the world of hifi there is another large moral hazard - Information Asymmetry.

 

[Westsounds]

You paint with a pretty wide brush!

Yes. It's the truth though, in a monetary system and world we live in its how it is unfortunately. I wish it was different but we never know if someone has an incentive. Even down to our health. Do we really need that specific drug, is there a better one, but the doctors are sponsored by this or that drug company. It might be effective maybe not exactly what we need, but it's all they've access to.

Very few live in the house or area they want, it's the house they can afford. Cynical I know, but that is the world we live in.

 

[Westsounds]

The thing is with hifi it's pretty much once you've got to good enough, there's nothing more a dealer can sell you other than something that looks different or a different effect. And once they've sold everyone who wants good enough, they are literally out of business because there's nothing else. The industry keeps rehashing and inventing things to keep the consumer buying. Keeping that salesman in a job, or as its going now, e commerce, the digital sales interface. There's always someone behind it though and if they are not making a profit there's no incentive for them. Otherwise it would just be a hobby for them like us consumers, we fund it with our incomes.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Yes. It's the truth though, in a monetary system and world we live in its how it is unfortunately. I wish it was different but we never know if someone has an incentive. Even down to our health. Do we really need that specific drug, is there a better one, but the doctors are sponsored by this or that drug company. It might be effective maybe not exactly what we need, but it's all they've access to.

Very few live in the house or area they want, it's the house they can afford. Cynical I know, but that is the world we live in.

It's hard to agree with this and your previous post.

Of course everyone who sells something want compensation for their efforts, they need to make a living too. That doesn't mean it's unetichal or that they have ulterior motives or are dishonest. That can be the case, certainly, but by no means does that have to be the case.

 

[Petrushka]

Back in the age of dinosaurs, my first job was in retail sales of photographic equipment. I will not say where, but the store was bigger than 47th Street Photo or B&H.

We had everything. There was no incentive to favor one brand or product over another. The store collected all the spiffs.

There was one guy who consistently had the highest sales. He was a closer.

He did not have to be dishonest. He merely had to have no qualms about reinforcing a customer’s fantasies about achieving happiness through buying stuff.

 

[Westsounds]

He merely had to have no qualms about reinforcing a customer’s fantasies about achieving happiness through buying stuff.

Exactly

. I will not say where, but the store was bigger than 47th Street Photo or B&H.

Has to be Jessops

 

[Sokel]

The thing is with hifi it's pretty much once you've got to good enough, there's nothing more a dealer can sell you other than something that looks different or a different effect. And once they've sold everyone who wants good enough, they are literally out of business because there's nothing else. The industry keeps rehashing and inventing things to keep the consumer buying. Keeping that salesman in a job, or as its going now, e commerce, the digital sales interface. There's always someone behind it though and if they are not making a profit there's no incentive for them. Otherwise it would just be a hobby for them like us consumers, we fund it with our incomes.

That could be partly true if a big part of the costumers at this hobby was not searching for the next dopamine dose, as in every hobby.
Sometimes is not the industry that creates needs, it's us, the customers.

I know people having 5 DAC, I know people changing a small 2-way for another only to get used to it after some days, as if nothing changed, etc.
And then there's the ones who can't change much, so the only way is small thingies of all shorts.

There's a saying that sometimes the clients are more corrupted than the sellers

 

[Westsounds]

Now if you have monopoly power, that’s a huge moral hazard i agree. In the world of hifi there is another large moral hazard - Information Asymmetry.

This is quite interesting. And China seem to be, the way the market is at the moment anyway, and cornering this. They are designing products and have the capacity to manufacture like no one else it seems. The way technology advances as well, there’ll be no need soon to go elsewhere. They are cheaper, better spec’d and even more easily accessible than local stuff it seems as logistics continually improve. There’ll always be I want this or that or ‘the British sound BS’ but soon with DSP there’ll be a button to press for that emulation anyway, or what many perceive as it.

They don’t even have to do any marketing. Places like ASR are doing it for them. Measures well, good spec, Amir gives it a golfing panther and the sales take care of themselves. And if it does measure well, who can argue with it. Scientifically you are getting something that’s good enough. There is no need for more.

 

[Westsounds]

That could be partly true if a big part of the costumers at this hobby was not searching for the next dopamine dose, as in every hobby.
Sometimes is not the industry that creates needs, it's us, the customers.

I know people having 5 DAC, I know people changing a small 2-way for another only to get used to it after some days, as if nothing changed, etc.
And then there's the ones who can't change much, so the only way is small thingies of all shorts.

There's a saying that sometimes the clients are more corrupted than the sellers

You are right demand does drive the market and if people are stupid enough to continue to put money in the slot machine for that as you say dopamine hit what can you do. It’s how companies like FB make profit, they are way beyond what any hi-fi marketing is capable of now with algorithm technology and AI. They continually want you on their site, as they will do anything to keep you there. The moment you are not they are not making money from you, you are the commodity. And they craftily tap into that dopamine to keep you scrolling.

I was talking to a founder of a well known British Hi-Fi speaker manufacturer once and even he said. ‘I’ve designed plenty of decent speakers enough for everyone's domestic needs, yet people still want me to do different designs and products and I just keep doing it, there's a market for it.’ And he said I’ve had the same speakers at home for the past 40 years, they were and always will be good enough, I don’t need to continually change them, and he owned one of the best audiophile speaker companies

 

[antcollinet]

I would really like to hear your experiences with buying Hi-Fi, probably best not to name names but just the overall experience.
I haven’t been into a Hi-Fi shop for thirty years, my dealer when I was a young man was Howard Popeck who sadly just recently passed away.
He was always I recollect pretty straight up with me but then I purchased an active Meridian system and really only sought his advice when I needed a new cartridge for the turntable, this was early 1980’s probably before the Tsunami of ‘everything matters’ hit.
Keith

You seem to manage it.

EDIT - sorry - just realised I've replied to a close to 3 year old post. Go on, own up - who's responsible for the thread necromancy?

 

[Petrushka]

Exactly



Has to be Jessops

Altman Camera.

 

[markstein]

To be successful, you need to be honest. Not the other way around.

Unfortunately this is wrong.

 

[Petrushka]

I was never a good closer, because I liked to discuss the pros and cons of various products. Too much choice delays decision making.

Closers suss out your inclination and reinforce it.

You can destroy your relationship with a customer by trying to maximize your profit on one sale. It depends on the industry and on the genre of product, but some stores want repeat customers.

We laugh about snake oil, but people are generally happy with things that work, even if they are technically overpriced.