Is it possible for speakers to just be this magical? Wilson Audio Watt Puppy.

[Beave]

This is a dishonest characterization of the criticisms in this thread and bad faith engagement isn't doing you any favors.

Yes, this, exactly. It's a total mischaracterization of what I wrote. Strangely so, in fact.

 

[Beave]

About sixteen or eighteen years ago, I visited a high end dealership that sold Wilson speakers, including their top of the line (at the time) Alexandria model that was something like $280k/pair.

I was listening to the Wilsons in a dedicated room when a store employee came in and told me and another customer that just a few days before, David Wilson himself had visited and optimized the setup. Mr. Wilson did so, according to the employee, by walking around the room while clapping his hands. He then moved each speaker a few inches, walked around clapping again, and then moved a couple of acoustic panels on the side walls by a few inches. That's it. That was the optimization.

The employee told me all of this with a sense of awe at the incredible abilities Mr. Wilson had to optimize a setup entirely by using himself as instrumentation. To the employee he was a magician and acoustical guru.

 

[Buckchester]

About sixteen or eighteen years ago, I visited a high end dealership that sold Wilson speakers, including their top of the line (at the time) Alexandria model that was something like $280k/pair.

I was listening to the Wilsons in a dedicated room when a store employee came in and told me and another customer that just a few days before, David Wilson himself had visited and optimized the setup. Mr. Wilson did so, according to the employee, by walking around the room while clapping his hands. He then moved each speaker a few inches, walked around clapping again, and then moved a couple of acoustic panels on the side walls by a few inches. That's it. That was the optimization.

The employee told me all of this with a sense of awe at the incredible abilities Mr. Wilson had to optimize a setup entirely by using himself as instrumentation. To the employee he was a magician and acoustical guru.

Holy, this is comedy gold!

 

[Buckchester]

About sixteen or eighteen years ago, I visited a high end dealership that sold Wilson speakers, including their top of the line (at the time) Alexandria model that was something like $280k/pair.

I was listening to the Wilsons in a dedicated room when a store employee came in and told me and another customer that just a few days before, David Wilson himself had visited and optimized the setup. Mr. Wilson did so, according to the employee, by walking around the room while clapping his hands. He then moved each speaker a few inches, walked around clapping again, and then moved a couple of acoustic panels on the side walls by a few inches. That's it. That was the optimization.

The employee told me all of this with a sense of awe at the incredible abilities Mr. Wilson had to optimize a setup entirely by using himself as instrumentation. To the employee he was a magician and acoustical guru.

The Wilson son might need to move those things a few more cm to take into account the acoustic dampening of the Viking beard…

 

[RexrothPigeon]

The Wilson son might need to move those things a few more cm to take into account the acoustic dampening of the Viking beard…

Sir that is a magic: the gathering and my little brony beard not a viking beard

 

[MattHooper]

About sixteen or eighteen years ago, I visited a high end dealership that sold Wilson speakers, including their top of the line (at the time) Alexandria model that was something like $280k/pair.

I was listening to the Wilsons in a dedicated room when a store employee came in and told me and another customer that just a few days before, David Wilson himself had visited and optimized the setup. Mr. Wilson did so, according to the employee, by walking around the room while clapping his hands. He then moved each speaker a few inches, walked around clapping again, and then moved a couple of acoustic panels on the side walls by a few inches. That's it. That was the optimization.

The employee told me all of this with a sense of awe at the incredible abilities Mr. Wilson had to optimize a setup entirely by using himself as instrumentation. To the employee he was a magician and acoustical guru.

That does sound a bit odd.

Though I remember hearing that there is somebody, maybe a speaker designer, who is good at setting up speakers and he used a technique where he would I think, sitting in the position and have somebody move to spots near and away walls and corners while speaking. And once the person’s voice sound sounded good…. With less obvious reflection coloration I presume….. that’s where they would start by placing the speakers.

Though I personally have always used another type of “ clap my hands” test: I will often use tracks in which there is clapping (light sparse claps being best individual claps can be heard ) and lightly clap my own hands along with it. For me this often reveals the distinct differences between the timbre and presence of real human flesh being clapped together versus they often “ closer to sizzling bacon” version that comes through many sound systems.

When I’ve got a sound system dialled in right, when I clap my hands, there is very little perceived difference between the sound of my hands clapping and those coming from the recording.

 

[norman bates]

Here is a neat video on adding multiple levels of room treatment.
He clacks 2 pieces of wood together.

I was surprised at how much difference adding a little stuff in the corners made.

Also, a huge difference when the side wall diffusors were added, more than I expected.
I've always recommended cardboard 12" concrete form tubes.
Wow, for a 12" diameter 4' tall is $23 @ home depot. Prices have almost doubled in 5 years on that....
Won't win any beauty pagents like this (but worked great), but wrap in a nice basket weave fabric and top with wood, it can look really nice.

 

[Nondemo01]

This is a dishonest characterization of the criticisms in this thread and bad faith engagement isn't doing you any favors.
The reality is that Danny is an unrepentant liar who over many years has consistently deleted any comments or posts that even slightly call his claims into question. His credibility is nil among anyone who cares about audio science, and that is not the same as "I don't like Danny." Personally, I don't know Danny, so I have no like or dislike of him at all--he's not even a person to me, just an online TV show that I learned long ago deals primarily in deception and treats audio buyers as prey to be defrauded for his own enrichment.

Okay. ANYWAY.

I’m not asking anyone to accept Danny, GR Research, or his upgrade recommendations on faith. I’m also not arguing that credibility is irrelevant. If someone has a documented history of misrepresenting data, deleting legitimate criticism, or using measurements selectively, then that is a fair reason to scrutinize their conclusions more heavily.

But that still does not answer the specific point.

The claim being discussed was not “Danny is trustworthy, therefore Wilson is bad.” The point was that a specific video showed specific measurements on the speakers being discussed, and those measurements raised enough concerns that I personally would not be interested in buying them.

The proper rebuttal would be something like:

His measurement setup was flawed.
The mic placement was wrong.
The gated/windowed response was misleading.
The impedance data was inaccurate.
The crossover interpretation was incorrect.
The speaker was modified, damaged, or not representative.
The measured issues are inaudible or expected for that design approach.

Any of those would be a direct response.

But broad attacks on Danny’s character, even if you believe they are deserved, do not by themselves invalidate the measurements shown in that specific case. They may be a reason to be skeptical, but skepticism still needs to connect back to the evidence.

So my position is pretty simple: don’t defend Danny. Don’t defend GR Research. Don’t defend the upgrade kit. Attack the measurements or the interpretation if they are wrong.

That was my point.

 

[Chrispy]

LOL Wilson....

 

[Buckchester]

Tee-hee…Wilson…ugh.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Why are we sharing this guy's videos?

Andrew Robinson is one of the better reviewers. He actually does do some measurements, he gives negative reviews, and he compares products with each other. This is unlike other subjective reviewers like Darko, who often seems to only describe the features of products and almost never does meaningful comparisons.

 

[TonyJZX]

Andrew Robinson is actually 'better' but he's still a huckster... in the auto world or the computer gaming world its the equivalent of giving the worst product a 6/10 and couching the final word by saying their more expensive product is a better choice... guy wants the stream of products to review...

everyone knows Wilson isnt well regarded in many circles

 

[Westsounds]

Andrew Robinson is actually 'better' but he's still a huckster... in the auto world or the computer gaming world its the equivalent of giving the worst product a 6/10 and couching the final word by saying their more expensive product is a better choice... guy wants the stream of products to review...

everyone knows Wilson isnt well regarded in many circles

Maybe not a huckster per se, but certainly has an interest in a finical incentive with things, and you could not get a clear definitive realistic opinion as he is so invested in things, whether its for his own gain, or the greater sales or other interests. You can tell that by the amount of subscribers he has, it’s certainly a hustle for him.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Andrew Robinson is one of the better reviewers.

"this is actually one of the tastier flavors of cat turd"

 

[Westsounds]

Here is a neat video on adding multiple levels of room treatment.
He clacks 2 pieces of wood together.

I was surprised at how much difference adding a little stuff in the corners made.

Also, a huge difference when the side wall diffusors were added, more than I expected.
I've always recommended cardboard 12" concrete form tubes.
Wow, for a 12" diameter 4' tall is $23 @ home depot. Prices have almost doubled in 5 years on that....
Won't win any beauty pagents like this (but worked great), but wrap in a nice basket weave fabric and top with wood, it can look really nice.

View attachment 529066

thats impressive!

 

[Westsounds]

"this is actually one of the tastier flavors of cat turd"

A turd is always a turd

 

[RexrothPigeon]

A turd is always a turd

And you know what's awesome? We don't have to eat any turds (subjectivist influencer grifter content) at all. We can eat delicious, nutritious food (objective measurements).

 

[Westsounds]

And you know what's awesome? We don't have to eat any turds (subjectivist influencer grifter content) at all. We can eat delicious, nutritious food (objective measurements).

You can't even polish a turd, ah, but you can roll it in glitter. Oh yeah, it's still a turd

 

[prerich]

Andrew Robinson is actually 'better' but he's still a huckster... in the auto world or the computer gaming world its the equivalent of giving the worst product a 6/10 and couching the final word by saying their more expensive product is a better choice... guy wants the stream of products to review...

everyone knows Wilson isnt well regarded in many circles

However, in Amir's review of the Tune Tot...he recommends the speaker. It was the most shocking thing I ever saw at ASR.

 

[Westsounds]

However, in Amir's review of the Tiny Tot...he recommends the speaker. It was the most shocking thing I ever saw at ASR.

The same happened with the Chord DAVE, reviewers were gushing over it and how it was like no other and again magical, yet Amir called it out for what it is. Overpriced and no better than any other well-built DAC that can cost much less!