What about: as the BASS (Kick Drum, perhaps )wave hits your external chest, and also flows up your nostril cavities with a slight delay (caused by the "contained & directed pressure though the much smaller & convoluted sinus cavities & brachial tubes"), the sensation of your chest thumping?There are two types of nerves that are found in the abdominal cavity, C-fibres and A-delta fibres. As you mention, C-fibres innervate the gut, while A-delta fibres innervate the peritoneum (and also pleura and other things). A-delta fibres are myelinated. The classic med school example of the difference between the two types of pain is in the case of acute appendicitis. The initial pain is visceral, so it's vague, disturbing, poorly localised, and is felt in the distribution of the anatomical midgut. As the inflammation spreads through the visceral wall, it inflames the peritoneum. So the pain transitions to McBurney's point. It is sharp, localized, worsened with movement, and accompanied by clinical signs of localized guarding.
I have never thought of "visceral sound" as actually exciting visceral nerve fibres. Maybe I should spend some brain cells looking at it
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Is impactful and visceral sound simply a product of high SPL?
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Kain
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Thanks.
Since I was originally considering the X40 for LCR and X20 for all other positions, do you think I could get away with it? The X40 LCR will be around 2 meters from the listening position. While you might not hear the hiss during music or other playback, it could "get in the way" during quieter passages in movies? But since you said it is audible at 1 meter and my LCRs X40s will be at 2 meters, it could be okay?
montyliam
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Keep in mind that while the 106 dB sweep on the S360 shows what looks like fairly high distortion, it actually remains under 1% THD from 200 Hz up through 3 kHz. Beyond 3 kHz, distortion does rise sharply, but it’s almost entirely H2, with H3 staying well under 1% across the range. That behavior is typical for compression drivers, and since H2 is generally considered far less objectionable than H3, it’s not something to worry about in practice. If you run a high-pass filter at 80–120 Hz, the distortion below 200 Hz drops significantly as well. So while seeing ~4% at 100 Hz at 106 dB might look concerning on paper, in reality it will be reduced with a HPF, often back into inaudible territory. For these reasons, I wouldn’t hesitate to say the S360 is fully capable of hitting very high clean levels in-room. For context, I’m running 8350s as LCR, and they have no issue reaching reference at my 2.5 m listening distance.
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Kain
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Thanks for the info.
Do you think the S360 can work with a 3.7-3.9 feet listening distance (which is how far my side surrounds will be from the listening position)? Or will the compression driver be a little too "hard on the ears" at this distance at high SPL? According to the "correct monitors" chart from Genelec, the minimum distance for the S360 is around 3.2 feet (which is the "summing distance" for the individual drivers). The LCR S360s will be 6-7 feet away so that I'm sure will be fine.
I asked Genelec if the S360 can work with a 3.7-3.9 feet distance and they said it should be no problem but thought I would reconfirm here.
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My apologies for sharing my own product here, but this is a rather interesting test in the context of the discussion. Here we see playback of a pretty demanding track at around 80-85dB average and then ~108dB average. The fun part is that the volume is normalized to sound the same in the video, so you can see if you can hear any compression. This is not recorded at 1m, but at the listening position a little more than 3 meters from the speakers, admittedly with two speakers playing.
This kind of SPL is rather demanding, and cost a pretty penny. I might also mention that 108-110dB at the listening position like this is also VERY loud, so loud that many people would probably get the urge to hold their hands over their ears. So quite a bit louder than you'd typically want to use for watching an entire movie or listening to music over more than a few minutes.
This kind of SPL is rather demanding, and cost a pretty penny. I might also mention that 108-110dB at the listening position like this is also VERY loud, so loud that many people would probably get the urge to hold their hands over their ears. So quite a bit louder than you'd typically want to use for watching an entire movie or listening to music over more than a few minutes.
Do you know if this is still on their site? Can't seem to find it.
montyliam
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I certainly would not use the S360 as surrounds for that distance, totally wasted firepower imo, the 8350 or even 8340 would be much more appropriate imo. My plan when I move to a bigger room is retire the 8350's to surrounds, use my current 8030c surrounds as atmos heights and use either the S360 or 1237a as LCR.
I like both, it does not have to be super loud to feel this slight room pressurization (many times the old "Loudness" button could be just enough on the old days (when they were common) at moderate levels.
And get to enjoy the emotional & visceral simultaneously (unless it is very loud, in which case, I am in the emotional throw of jumping around to accuracy of the visceral experience.
I am a big listener of "LIVE" recordings at various venues. (That I may or may not have been to at the time the "live" recordings where made).
Of course, these days, my idea of moderate (to overcome my tinnitus inner noise) may be louder than another person's moderate (my wife prefers ZERO stereo "noise" [her words, not mine] & {another reason that we have not owned a TV since 2007}). Her choice but I'm agnostic about having a monitor, so don't care one way or the other.
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Do you prefer headphones to loudspeakers playing back in a room?
Some people prefer headphones as it is usually easier to hear some of the sonic details, but others prefer speakers. In addition to loudspeakers presenting a more realistic "image" to me at least, loudspeakers when played at realistic volumes will impact your entire body which is more similar to being at a live musical performance.
I abhor headphones, particularly ones that are corded.
When I do wear them (1 moment is far too much) it is to avoid disturbing my wife (who just prefers the natural background noise to any music in the background or otherwise).
When I do wear them (1 moment is far too much) it is to avoid disturbing my wife (who just prefers the natural background noise to any music in the background or otherwise).
One other thing to keep in mind is that not all (or more like few) small rooms can handle 100+ dB full range. In my room if I play 20Hz loud (over ~105 dB) the drywall starts banging against the studs on one wall which I don't have a solution for. In addition previously light fixtures, shutters, and a built in wall safe all "buzzed" with loud LF sound but I managed to solve those issues. Not sure how you try things out before you purchase but for a small rooms spending a lot of money for a large number of powerful speakers may not give you what you want so would not be cost effective. You may be able to get all the room is capable of with a lot less power and expense.
I do both - and like both.
If the source contains a lot of sub 25hz material I believe the difference will be audible, specially as the SPL increases.
I'm mainly interested in music, and find inner detail and smoothness in the midrange & treble more important to my listening
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Kain
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I have one question regarding the Genelec The Ones. I have read quite a few reports from people who mix or have mixed on them that they find that their mixes don't translate well (in fact they say that Genelec speakers in general don't translate well but they could be just referring to The Ones). They also find them bright and/or fatiguing to work on for extended periods of time. I wanted to know why this is the case considering they measure almost perfectly?
I say go for the X20 and invest the savings into other stuff. The X20 is good enough for SAG-AFTRA.
+1
They are good enough for me in my 13' by 20' by 8' room. Anything larger would visually take over the room. The X20s have headroom for days and at any reasonable SPL level they do not compress.
There is a difference between a horn and a waveguide. A horn does use a more narrow dispersion to put more energy forwards and not as wide.
A waveguide is used to match dispersion between divers in the crossover region between the drivers. This allows more consistent dispersion. Without a wave guide you will have uneven dispersion and not as wide of dispersion as the off axis response will not be similar to the on axis response. Usually, without a waveguide the off axis response will see changes at about 40-45 degrees dispersion. With a waveguide the off axis response will still be similar to on axis response at 50-60+ degrees dispersion.there are exceptions like ribbon tweeters.
