Is Hifiman HE400i better than Sennhaiser HD598

[Severian]

I really don't like the treble of the 4XX, even with EQ. I find the 6XX a vastly better headphone overall.

 

[sejarzo]

The 400i replacement cable I went with and love:

$18.90 new
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MT7Y90R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I agree, the stock cable is much too stiff and wants to take a "set" far too easily, but my biggest gripe is that the split is too low. The flat top of the "divider" (for lack of a better word) has a bad tendency to get caught on the edge of my keyboard tray. I was planning on building my own cable with Mogami star quad, but after eye problems/surgeries, I am no longer confident in soldering those tiny 2.5mm plug connections.

Does the split sit any higher on the cable you linked? Thanks!

 

[sejarzo]

I really don't like the treble of the 4XX, even with EQ. I find the 6XX a vastly better headphone overall.

I have not heard the 6XX. I was a devoted HD600 user for 14 years but sold them after buying the 400is. When the HD650 came out, it was just way too warm for me, and that lower end warmth seemed to exacerbate the "Senn veil" to my ears.

Do you have experience with both the HD650 and the 6XX? Thanks!

 

[sejarzo]

I have a few different sets of headphones, but I often get goosebumps from the 400i's. The detail and clarity just blows me away.

I agree, but sometimes I wonder if that peak simply makes up for bad recordings plus my 62 year old ears that I know are not what they used to be. Nevertheless, I really enjoy them driven by a Topping D30 and Schiit Heresy.

 

[dwa]

I agree, but sometimes I wonder if that peak simply makes up for bad recordings plus my 62 year old ears that I know are not what they used to be. Nevertheless, I really enjoy them driven by a Topping D30 and Schiit Heresy.

Do you notice any difference between driving them with D30 vs Heresy?

Edit: Oops. I was thinking about DX3 Pro not D30...

 

[sejarzo]

Do you notice any difference between driving them with D30 vs Heresy?

Edit: Oops. I was thinking about DX3 Pro not D30...

I assumed that was the case. What I can say is that I prefer the Heresy over my trusty old Cavalli Kan Kumisa III headamp that uses 100% discrete components in the signal path that also has high current capability into low impedance (1.4 watts into 33 ohms, per the designer's spec.)

About a year ago, I had a Magni 3 (not the 3+) for a month or so and thought it to be no significant improvement over the CKKIII, plus it had a noisy volume pot so I got rid of it. I saw a Heresy for sale cheap on Head-Fi a few weeks ago and decided to snap it up, mostly as it has preamp outputs that I now would love to have due to changing up my system. Glad I did.

 

[Nango]

Really good website! Thanks!

Greatest phone website I've ever seen.

 

[Blur]

I agree, the stock cable is much too stiff and wants to take a "set" far too easily, but my biggest gripe is that the split is too low. The flat top of the "divider" (for lack of a better word) has a bad tendency to get caught on the edge of my keyboard tray. I was planning on building my own cable with Mogami star quad, but after eye problems/surgeries, I am no longer confident in soldering those tiny 2.5mm plug connections.

Does the split sit any higher on the cable you linked? Thanks!

The split is pretty low in both, but here is the pic. The one on the right is the new cable.

 

[Blur]

The 400i has a few treble peaks seen in the higher frequency square wave plots. My ears are sensitive to 3.5kHz and the harmonics. Moving the pads around made the 400i very listenable.

 

[sejarzo]

The split is pretty low in both, but here is the pic. The one on the right is the new cable.

Thanks. It looks like that would be just enough to keep it above the point that gives me problems at my computer, so I will order one now.

The 400i has a few treble peaks seen in the higher frequency square wave plots. My ears are sensitive to 3.5kHz and the harmonics. Moving the pads around made the 400i very listenable.

I bought mine used and the seller included the stock velours and the Brainwavzs leather pads, which seem to be equal thickness all around. I listened to them out of the box with the velours, then put on the Brainwavz and was astounded by how well those fixed the low end leakage. I think I put the velours back on just once but never thought about rotating them.

I always found the AKG and Beyers with large round velour pads to feel quite comfortable but always thought they lacked low end, which I assumed to be due to a lack of seal on my head versus the HD600s and similar.

 

[snake3276120]

I own HD599 and He400i, i don't think that HD589 & HD599 is that much different, so i'll say that hifiman he400i is just a better headphone in almost all aspect, HD 599 is just more portable, although still wouldn't wear it outside.

Glad you got both! I think 599 is a direct update to 598. I definetly won't bring these outside. If my wife takes my HD598 I'll get HiFiMan HE-400i. Thanks for the info!

 

[snake3276120]

another HE400i measurement

and Sonarworks:
View attachment 48266

Do not that all measurements show the 2 weak points. Bass roll-off and the 6-10kHz peak. For the last 'issue' (sibilance) there is a fix when it bothers an owner (some actually like the extra detail the peak adds in some recordings).

That dip in 2K is the most worrying part... I could be wrong.

 

[maxxevv]

I have both the HE 4XX and the HD 6XX. I can't say I like one over the other. I like to own more than one tie as well. But, the HE 4XX can be driven by a smart phone or tablet. It doesn't absolutely require an amp.

Not true in my experience. I have both the headphones you have as well.

Ok for vocals etc. But listen to, say, the DG Ultra HD Kleiber Beethoven 7th with your HE400i - and anything less than a clean 1w will be really, really apparent...

(Was it the 7th where one critic called it 'One step from the madhouse'?)

This is my experience with the HE4XX too. On pop, its passable but it won't get loud enough to pull out all the dynamics on phone or tablet. It gets really obvious with highly dynamic music such as classical recordings.

It shines only with an amp of moderate power, handphones, even the LG V40 / G6 are not quite enough. But a JDS Atom is already suffice. So too the DX3Pro.

Depends on how much the target budget is, but the HE4XX is a cheaper alternative to the HE400i. The Sundara is better in some ways for 2.5X the price, some may or may not justify the premium. The next level up on the Hifiman's that impress me are the Arya. But that's on another price scale altogether.

There a few planar's on the market that are fairly well received within the US$350/- range.
- Drop HE4XX
- Hifiman Sundara
- Verum
- Takstar HF 580
- Blon B20
- ThieAudio Phantom

Of those, I have only tried the HE4XX and Verum. The impression was the Verum sounding a warmer but wait times can be uncertain.

Edit Addendum:

I have to add, the HE4XX somewhat changes its sound quite evidently if you do some (reversible) mods to it. The simplest is to remove the original grills. It opens up the back and creates a different "staging" to the sound. It works too on the HE400i.

Some like it , though some don't as you do lose some of that bass response in the overall signature of the sound. (my avatar shows what I have done with mine).

Also, when it comes to singular , intimate vocal tracks, I still prefer the HD6XX.

 

[MRC01]

... Currently I have an HD598. My wifi really likes it and want it as hers, so I need to get something else. I wonder is Hifiman HE400i better than HD598, or if there's anything else you guys can recommend around ~$200 (USD) value range. ...

I like the HD58x and 6xx better than the HE400i. The mids and treble sound more linear, natural and lower distortion. The HE400i sounds more exciting, but artificially bright and unnatural. I listen to mostly acoustic music and like it to sound realistic/natural. The 58x for sure, and 6xx may be, in your price range at Massdrop.

 

[charleshifiman]

Always check the HiFi man website store. A closed box 400i is $169. Open box $139. I have the 400S and liked it. Last AXPONA I ordered
the Sundara (less then $300) and its amazing. Currently $350 on their website. Diminishing returns above its cost. They have the cloth covered cables from the 400S available at different lengths, and replaced the short one on the Sundara that reviews seem to hate. It has the new larger mini plugs, so the connector must be specified.

 

[solderdude]

That dip in 2K is the most worrying part... I could be wrong.

Strangely enough dips aren't nearly as sound degrading as peaks. The dip reveals itself as having less 'clarity' which is most obvious with some instruments and female voices which sound a bit less 'present'. Peaks usually are much more bothersome.
The 'artificially bright and unnatural' MRC01 reports is coming from the dip (the unnatural part) and the 'bright' is coming from the peak which can be removed.

 

[pwjazz]

The 400i has a few treble peaks seen in the higher frequency square wave plots. My ears are sensitive to 3.5kHz and the harmonics. Moving the pads around made the 400i very listenable.

I have an HE4XX, which is very similar to the HE400i though the pads are slight different. It too suffers from a treble peak. I tried your reversal trick but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

Measurement on MiniDSP E.A.R.S. with HEQ (harman-like) compensation

 

[sejarzo]

I have an HE4XX, which is very similar to the HE400i though the pads are slight different. It too suffers from a treble peak. I tried your reversal trick but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

Measurement on MiniDSP E.A.R.S. with HEQ (harman-like) compensation

The minor differences there would seem to be what might be expected if one measured the headphone, removed it from the rig, replaced it, and measured it again, correct?

The blue trace is mostly just shifted a bit to the left up to 4 kHz.

 

[Blur]

Yeah it might not work for everyone as our ears and mini amplifiers in our ears are all different. It worked wonders for me luckily.

 

[pwjazz]

The minor differences there would seem to be what might be expected if one measured the headphone, removed it from the rig, replaced it, and measured it again, correct?

The blue trace is mostly just shifted a bit to the left up to 4 kHz.

I took two measurements with each variation, removing and replacing the headphone for each, and averaged them. You can see below that the individual trials of each variation are much more similar to each other than they are to the other variation, so I think there's a real difference here, but it's not a big one.