Is DSD superior or just the audio file du jour?

[Phelonious Ponk]

Too many years knocking around this hobby has turned me from skeptic to cynic. Many of the people who seem to think DSD is the greatest thing since toilet paper on a roll are not people whose opinions I trust. But there are a few here whom I do. What say you?

Tim

 

[Purité Audio]

Thirty odd year old format that was flawed back then. and remains so now,imo of course.
Keith.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I am a believer in hi rez audio, but I am indifferent to the choice between DSD and hi Rez PCM. They do seem to have somewhat different sonic signatures, subtly perhaps for many. The DSD tends to sound "softer" in the highs than PCM. That is pretty much the gist of it. Which is "righter"? Who knows. Both can and do sound really terrific on a large number of albums in my collection.

As you know, I am also a huge fan of Mch for my classical listening tastes. The majority of my collection of thousands of albums is in DSD from ripped SACDs. But, I prefer playing those via conversion to PCM, which allows me to use DSP for speaker distance correction, bass management and room EQ, all of which are virtually non-existent via DSD playback. To me, those features, especially the room EQ, are vastly more important than any DSD/PCM sonic differences.

 

[TBone]

I've built a small library of DSD/SACD material, and have had about a half dozen SACD players grace my system, every one on a temp. basis. My view on 2ch SACD material: if you already have the best CD or LP transfers, the best transferred Sacd's versions become redundant, you're essentially purchasing the very same transfer, just in a different, less accessible format. Also, many SACD releases proved no better, and just as dynamically culled, as subsequent CD remasters.

That said, I've been very impressed with some natively recorded SACD material, Keb Mo & Allison Krauss come to mind.

As for ripping/archiving SACD's to computer, forget about it ...

 

[NorthSky]

Tim, I'm a huge Bob Dylan's fan; SACDs anytime over the CDs, and even over the LPs.

Read also the pro music reviewers, the people with experience in all the different music formats...HDCD, DSD, 45rpm, 200gr, ...all that Rolling Stones jazz.
Get the best of Van ... expand your musical horizons, explore the dark side of classical multichannel music and the greatest opera singers. Cry your heart out, cry a river of ecstasy, go the full DSD enchilada, go SACD ♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫☺♥

 

[Blumlein 88]

Well, my only exposure is through a universal player that would do SACD. Quite a few people claim they prefer hirez PCM converted to DSD that it sounds better upon playback. Seems to me that means it has a coloration of its own like vinyl. Maybe you like it, but it isn't accurate. Of course many of those seem to have the magic metadata in the mind so it may not sound any different at all. It is also true some SACD discs have different mastering on the DSD layer vs the PCM.

PS-there is a way to rip SACD with one of the versions of a Sony playstations.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Dumb Sucker Digital is perfect for audiophiles to obsess over, since it's so audibly irrelevant.

 

[TBone]

I am a believer in hi rez audio, but I am indifferent to the choice between DSD and hi Rez PCM. They do seem to have somewhat different sonic signatures, subtly perhaps for many. The DSD tends to sound "softer" in the highs than PCM. That is pretty much the gist of it. Which is "righter"? Who knows. Both can and do sound really terrific on a large number of albums in my collection.

Yes, "softer highs" is also a consistency I tend to hear w/sacd, don't really care for the effect. The same characteristic can be said for those CD players which provided upsampling choices, like some Cary's. The higher you set the sampling rate, the softer ...

 

[TBone]

Dumb Sucker Digital is perfect for audiophiles to obsess over, since it's so audibly irrelevant.

what would any of us dummies / children do without your ongoing words of wisdom, steering near every thread towards fight club territory ...

 

[Thomas savage]

Yes, "softer highs" is also a consistency I tend to hear w/sacd, don't really care for the effect. The same characteristic can be said for those CD players which provided upsampling choices, like some Cary's. The higher you set the sampling rate, the softer ...

I agree, it's like the highs are stretched out.

It's yet another thing for the male to obsess over, I don't care about dsd, mqa, pcm... You either have enjoyable music firing at your ears or you don't. And if you don't it won't be because the sample rate is only 16/44.1 or that it's dsd or whatever. It will be because the track has been recorded /mastered/transferred in a sub optimum way, and or your system is setup poorly.

Pcm is fine, to me it's never been a limiting factor in of its self.

 

[Thomas savage]

Plus it's yet another mechanism of division for the industry. It's not what we need!

 

[Purité Audio]

Bit 'fuzzier' therefore more like vinyl, therefore more 'analogue'.
I'll stick with PCM.
Keith

 

[TBone]

Or imagine hearing.
When did you hear this in a controlled listening test?

lol, so predictable.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I've built a small library of DSD/SACD material, and have had about a half dozen SACD players grace my system, every one on a temp. basis. My view on 2ch SACD material: if you already have the best CD or LP transfers, the best transferred Sacd's versions become redundant, you're essentially purchasing the very same transfer, just in a different, less accessible format. Also, many SACD releases proved no better, and just as dynamically culled, as subsequent CD remasters.

That said, I've been very impressed with some natively recorded SACD material, Keb Mo & Allison Krauss come to mind.

As for ripping/archiving SACD's to computer, forget about it ...

I agree. The really important thing is mastering differences, not format differences. If an SACD is remastered in essentially the same way with the same master, it is unlikely to be worthwhile over other formats, even more "primative "ones.

But, natively recorded high rez, is just clearly better to my ears. But, again, I think the format difference in the final hi Rez disc - PCM or DSD - plays little role.

Yup, it ain't easy to rip those SACDs. But, I really like the payoff in being able to play them back not getting up from my listening chair via my iPad.

 

[TBone]

Fitz, do you have the 2003 Ken Scott remix multi-channel SACD version of Ziggy Stardust? That one, I'd really like to hear in MC.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Fitz, do you have the 2003 Ken Scott remix multi-channel SACD version of Ziggy Stardust? That one, I'd really like to hear in MC.

I don't think so, but I will check later. My rock stuff is a tiny chunk of my library.

 

[TBone]

Fitz, another question, if I may, how did you rip your SACDs?

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Fitz, another question, if I may, how did you rip your SACDs?

PS3. It is, I believe, the only way so far. The DRM on SACD has proven to be the toughest to crack of any commercial disc format, because it is not just all done in software. I have burned out two PS3s so far. They are junk internally. Heat kills them in normal use, and only certain specific old models can accept the hacking software. There are fewer and fewer available as a result.

 

[Thomas savage]

It's ok to exchange subjective listening experience with one another, if someone posts some more 'science ' based reasoning then of course that can not be countered by simple listening impressions.. It would be interesting to contrast the two but that's it. We cant argue in this way( not that any one was)

I don't need members to inappropriately police the forum in this regard or any other regard come to that.. Any attempts to do so will be deleted, before that feel free to ignore such posts.

So as you were gents,

 

[NorthSky]

Here are few links, but don't read them because they are not from pro music reviewers, they are from amateurs audio gear reviewers.
And pro music recording engineers, some of them they know what sounds best; you just have to find out who:

• http://www.ayre.com/insights_dsdvspcm.htm
• http://bitperfectsound.blogspot.ca/2013/04/dsd.html
• http://www.audiostream.com/content/...96-24192-64x-dsd-128x-dsd#zp4L8gLe0ihMlBIG.97 → My favorite

* Bonus: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...n-24-96-superior-direct-stream-digital-24445/
* http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/dsd-vs-pcm/

Of course I'm just kidding; read them they are short and educative, except for the longer thread over @ computeraudiophile - forum.