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Is COVID strategy moving towards herd-immunity?!

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North_Sky

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RayDunzl

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"She also claimed that before she fled China, her information was wiped from government databases

The lab has denied that Yan ever “conducted any research on human-to-human transmission” and said her assertions have “no scientific basis.”

She's like the Bob Lazar of Virology...
 

North_Sky

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No Ray, she's not like Bob Laser.

A question for you: Do you trust China's handling of COVID-19 right from the beginning, and their numbers up to now? And what about herd immunity ... free distribution across the globe?
 

raistlin65

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North_Sky

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We should all know that sources like the NYPost cannot be trusted.

We all know that Wes; but ... still.

WHO can you truly trust today? After all, we all want to go to heaven without dying ...
No matter what, this virus is spreading like wild forest fires all across the universe.
So there is a certain minimum natural herd immunity that is going on, want it or not.

It's our choice; mask up or not. We decide who lives and who dies.
Others even decide for us, want it or not.

It's a pathetic situation in some countries, run by corruption and deception.

* An effective vaccine before 47 days? Gimme a break.
Plus by the time it gets from point A to point B we'll be in the year 2024...November 2024 @ the very earliest.
 

Wes

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I usually rely on articles in scientific journals. esp. if the results are confirming a prev. report

I don't know what you mean by "certain minimum natural herd immunity"

I do wear a mask when out in public, and try to avoid morons.
 

North_Sky

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1. That NYPost article was food for thought.

2. "Certain minimum natural herd immunity" means all the measures that cannot be taken in the world to stop spreading the virus (logistics, economics, poor people, rich people, stubborn people, ...etc., etc., etc.), plus all the people who don't want to wear a mask, who don't want to keep a safe distance, who still believe that COVID-19 is a hoax. ...Or others who believe in miracles...vaccines that are effective before testing and trials.

3. I wear a mask @ all times outside because of the heavy smoke here, and inside public buildings in consideration and respect to human lives outside my own, but included.
I have very very bad heart and lungs conditions. And I'm not alone.
And even if I was healthy solid like the rock of Gibraltar plated in gold and chromium, I would still do the same with the kind of head that is attached above my shoulders.
 

Vasr

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WHO can you truly trust today?
Don't fall for this manufactured nihilism. The people who don't care about the truth are the ones that are trying to destroy the trust in anybody including those that look for the truth. The latter make mistakes or have to make guesses without complete information for sure but that is used as ammunition against them to make false equivalences between those that are making mistakes while searching for truth with those that are trying to hide the truth so the latter can propagate as easily as anything else.

It is up to you to figure out which ones are which not because they confirm your views but because they don't follow a pattern of deception and agenda and you can crosscheck. Most of all don't let someone else tell you who does or does not have an agenda. That is the entry point for controlling your sources of information.

So there is a certain minimum natural herd immunity that is going on, want it or not.
No proof for that. Immunity implies people have become resistant to getting infected over a period of time. Only vaccines that work can insure that. We don't have any good information or evidence yet that anybody has acquired immunity.

People not dying from infection (or recovering) should not be confused for immunity.
Decrease in infection rates should not be confused for immunity.
People avoiding infection via social distancing should not be confused for immunity.

These can go up and down forever without some form of immunity even for a specific strain.
 

North_Sky

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Look @ Spain today (new cases in the five digits), and the departed (three digits).
...And France, UK and Italy.
...And Germany, Canada (number of new cases in the four digits).

They're all on the rise again, as if an early Fall wave.
 
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Neutron

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@RayDunzl nytimes has a pretty good vaccine tracker too.
So much info, so little time...

This one looks good from your list. Do you have a favorite?
Or can someone else give a recommendation?

They talked heavily about vaccine since people need confidence and some sort of guarantee to restart economy. Closing downs, especially schools and daycares, are causing heavy (and also extra) burden on working classes.

Frankly speaking, current goal set by FDA in covid vaccine effectiveness, as I last check, is somewhere between 50-75% depeding on how optimzed they are, and it is going to be a challenging goal. The number isn't that great to begin with. Even if they came up something great, the next question would be: what's the effective cure for those who are infected (since we have a huge patient base now, it's unlikely for covid to disappear magically after one widespread vaccination, as 1% means hundreds of thousands now)? There is also possibility of people stopping self-protection after they got the shot, which is likely to raise infection counts afterwards, especially when effectiveness of the vaccine isn't 100%.

That question, in effective cure/medicine, is rarely spoke of since there is probaly not going to be one. There is simply no hope in it. We still don't have an effective cure for SARS that occured in 2003, and MERS in 2015. There are only a handful of successes against viruses in human histroy and most took a very long time to achieve. COVID is unlikely to stray away from that pattern.
 
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phoenixdogfan

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They talked heavily about vaccine since people need confidence and some sort of guarantee to restart economy. Closing downs, especially schools and daycares, are causing heavy (and also extra) burden on working classes.

Frankly speaking, current goal set by FDA in covid vaccine effectiveness, as I last check, is somewhere between 50-75% depeding on how optimzed they are, and it is going to be a challenging goal. The number isn't that great to begin with. Even if they came up something great, the next question would be: what's the effective cure for those who are infected (since we have a huge patient base now, it's unlikely for covid to disappear magically after one widespread vaccination, as 1% means hundreds of thousands now)? There is also possibility of people stopping self-protection after they got the shot, which is likely to raise infection counts afterwards, especially when effectiveness of the vaccine isn't 100%.

That question, in effective cure/medicine, is rarely spoke of since there is probaly not going to be one. There is simply no hope in it. We still don't have an effective cure for SARS that occured in 2003, and MERS in 2015. There are only a handful of successes against viruses in human histroy and most took a very long time to achieve. COVID is unlikely to stray away from that pattern.

If that is indeed the case, we should expect human life expectancy to plummet to 19 century levels in the next couple of years and stay there indefinitely. 55 year average life expectancy here we come. Guess we won't have to worry about the long term solvency of the Medicare or Social Security trust funds either.
 

North_Sky

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If that is indeed the case, we should expect human life expectancy to plummet to 19 century levels in the next couple of years and stay there indefinitely. 55 year average life expectancy here we come. Guess we won't have to worry about the long term solvency of the Medicare or Social Security trust funds either.

I know it sounds far-fetched a little, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out several options, all of them on the down side of course.

Confidence and trust are nice, science is real. Science doesn't deal with human emotions...Mr. Nice guy or Mr. Bad guy.

Miracles? Science doesn't deal with miracles either.
 

Neutron

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I know it sounds far-fetched a little, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out several options, all of them on the down side of course.

Confidence and trust are nice, science is real. Science doesn't deal with human emotions...Mr. Nice guy or Mr. Bad guy.

Miracles? Science doesn't deal with miracles either.

It’s challenging in decision making in this very time. It’s unlikely they can wait for scientists to nail things down before economy slides too much. No one can experiment with a country’s fate either.

We are replying on the leaders to take responsibility now.
 
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