Is classical music purely acoustic at live venues?

[AudioEnthusiast]

Recently I attended a classical concert (Holst, “The Planets”) at the concert hall in the Kennedy Center in DC. During especially loud passages (“Mars”, “Jupiter”) I swear I heard distortion. How can this be if all the instruments are acoustic? Do classical venues use amplification or DSP? Can ears distort, and if so, does it give the same acoustic sensation as electronic distortion?

 

[RayDunzl]

Do classical venues use amplification or DSP?

Sometimes.

https://www.avinteractive.com/terri...ennedy-center-extends-harman-role-10-09-2019/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_reinforcement_system#Classical_music_and_opera

Can ears distort

Yes (my experience)

does it give the same acoustic sensation as electronic distortion?

Maybe worse.

 

[Daverz]

The only amplified classical concerts I've been to are summer in the park type of concerts (and at La Jolla cove so they have to be heard over the surf as well).

However, I've also heard concerts in bad halls that make loud brass painful (a Mahler 2 at Mandeville Auditorium at UCSD, a dead concrete box).

 

[FrantzM]

Recently I attended a classical concert (Holst, “The Planets”) at the concert hall in the Kennedy Center in DC. During especially loud passages (“Mars”, “Jupiter”) I swear I heard distortion. How can this be if all the instruments are acoustic? Do classical venues use amplification or DSP? Can ears distort, and if so, does it give the same acoustic sensation as electronic distortion?

They do and sometimes they don’t disclose it. I’ve gone to a few concerts in Orlando FL (can’t remember the concert hall’s name) and this seems to be the norm there.

 

[mansr]

Recently I attended a classical concert (Holst, “The Planets”) at the concert hall in the Kennedy Center in DC. During especially loud passages (“Mars”, “Jupiter”) I swear I heard distortion. How can this be if all the instruments are acoustic? Do classical venues use amplification or DSP? Can ears distort, and if so, does it give the same acoustic sensation as electronic distortion?

From a quick Google search, it seems that the Kennedy Center has a sound reinforcement system from Harman. Whether it was in use at the concert you attended is another question. As for distortion, ears definitely distort at high levels. If you were sat towards the front, it's possible what you heard was your ears being pushed beyond their limits.

 

[MRC01]

... Do classical venues use amplification or DSP? Can ears distort, and if so, does it give the same acoustic sensation as electronic distortion?

Some do. I don't like it, but it's a fact of life. I avoid those venues and typically attend the smaller ones that don't do this.
As for ears distorting, of course! Before your hearing distorts due to high SPL, it will apply biological amplitude compression. You can learn to hear how that affects the sound. It's worth some time with an SPL meter and volume knob to get an idea of what exactly 70, 80, 90, 100 dB SPL sounds like.
Also, if you like live music that is often loud, or movie theaters, etc. custom mold musician's earplugs with Etymotic filters are a great thing to have, available with 9, 15, or 25 dB of attenuation. They reduce the sound levels while preserving most of the fidelity, without muffling it.

 

[AudioEnthusiast]

As for distortion, ears definitely distort at high levels. If you were sat towards the front, it's possible what you heard was your ears being pushed beyond their limits.

We were about where the center of the blue smudge lies. Towards the front, but not way up.

 

[AudioEnthusiast]

From a quick Google search, it seems that the Kennedy Center has a sound reinforcement system from Harman.

That’s interesting. I didn’t know that and I’ve been there more than 20 times over the years. I guess I wasn’t paying attention.

 

[AudioEnthusiast]

From a quick Google search, it seems that the Kennedy Center has a sound reinforcement system from Harman.

If you wouldn’t mind, can you point me to that? I’m seeing that the new REACH center at KC has a Harman system. That’s a new multimedia center that opened in a newly constructed building along the riverfront. I can’t find a reference to an amplified system in the concert hall.

Thanks.

edit...found it...never mind...thanks.

https://www.prosoundweb.com/soundcr...ade-for-the-kennedy-center-in-washington-d-c/

 

[DonH56]

No.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

Our main big venue, The Adelaide Festival Theatre has what is likely a very similar if not the same system as the Kennedy Centre. http://www.tecsa.com.au/afc_pictures.htm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LARES

In principle you should never hear this system in operation. The reality is that it doesn’t really live up to its ideal. Especially in the cheap seats, which is what it is supposed to help. But it probably helps what is a flawed venue for musical performance. The venue is multi use and is not great for music. My rule is to buy as good a seat as one can afford and no matter whatkeep away from the walls. I’m off to see a performance of Mozart’s Requiem there tonight.
My rule for any sound reinforcement is that you should not be able to tell it is in use. Sadly that is not easy to achieve and I have been to a lot of performances that have been degraded or ruined by ham fisted mixers.
If one talks to a lot of classical musicians they are ambivalent about use of a PA. Some seem to have a sneaking jealousy of rock band sound levels. OTOH, our main venue for classical performance has very good sound. But it isn’t big enough for some events, with no theatre stage, and half the number of seats.
There are occasional performances that go the whole hog and fully mic the orchestra and run a large PA. I hate them and will avoid such performances. They tend to occur when the concert is more of a festival event and where the audience is perhaps less demanding of sonic quality but have expectations derived from rock and roll.

 

[CtheArgie]

Well, when you go listen to the LA Philharmonic at the Hollywood Bowl, it’s amplified. Ironically, the sound is warmer at the Bowl than in Disney Hall, their home, where the sound is very problematic. Loud music comes across as “distorted”, though that is not the real definition. It also has poor bass.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

Rarely. Most instruments have dynamic range and maximum SPL louder than IMAX venue. Amplification is not needed except in very large venues or outdoor events.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

I’ll just follow up on the performance of Mozart’s Requiem I mentioned above. Just finished. I had a superb seat. Dead centre, close in. Sound was pretty good. The performance was pretty special, not just a recitation, but a full blown stage production with additional music also by Mozart. The production finished with a beautiful solo by a young and very talented boy. It was totally ruined by the LARES system I linked to above. The system clearly could not cope with the low sound levels, and was unable to work out what was going on, so it decided to treat the audience to a series of high pitched screeches and pulses at random intervals. What should have been a moving end to superb piece of music and theatre was turned into a farce. This is not the first time.

This is not directly related to the OP's question, which is about overt use of amplification for sound reinforcement. Rather this system is attempting to use technological solutions to fix poor acoustics. But they are related. Being a geek by nature, I would love the LARES system to work and solve the venues problems. The reality is that they should turn it off and leave it off.

The system also relates to the use of artificial processing to emulate multi-channel sound domestically. The LARES system came from Lexicon, which is a Harmon company, and has a direct relationship to processing used by Lexicon in domestic systems. I'm sure it lives on within Harmon, and we will see it offered in updated form in future offerings.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

Can ears distort, and if so, does it give the same acoustic sensation as electronic distortion?

You can drive your ears into distortion, and it does indeed sound not unakin to clipping. It is not pleasant. You need to attend a rock concert and stand in front of the bass bins. You won't hear it at an orchestral concert. A symphony orchestra can make you wince at the sound levels, but you won't get your ears into distortion. One thing that people unused to live orchestral music don't realise is that live, many instruments sound a lot more raw than when recorded. Apart from a flute just about every instrument is a sea of harmonics, and horns live have a harshness that most people find quite startling. A composer also takes advantage of mixing together the tambre of different instruments, and can achieve some dramatic sounds that you might not expect. Again, live, this takes on a whole new set of colours and rawness.

 

[Alexanderc]

I have been involved in concerts many, many times that use sound reinforcement. I would guess more with than without. Frequently this is done for the choir when performing large choral/orchestral works (the human voice is just not very loud). It almost always makes the sound worse. In the venue I perform most often, they will do it even if we ask them not to, and the people doing sound reinforcement for orchestra seem especially not good at it. Micing up a big group like that is really difficult and complicated. Even at pro venues with plenty of good quality equipment and techs who know what they’re doing, orchestral musicians don’t “play into the mic.” They move around and if they feel the mic is getting in their way they’ll move it. In my experience we don’t usually get any warning, we’re just there trying to do our jobs and there’s somebody wading through the orchestra or chorus with a bunch of wires and stands getting in our way (I’m sure they’re just as irritated with us).

The only times my ears have been driven to distort with acoustic instruments is in rehearsals in smaller rooms. The woodwind players in the orchestra all wore hearing protection for those rehearsals as the brass were right behind them.

 

[617]

Here in Boston - we have an outdoor bandstand on the river which sometimes uses amplification due to the large crowds which attend all along the river. At the Boston Symphony Orchestra or other varied smaller venus? I've never seen a PA in use and I wouldn't attend if they did.

 

[tuga]

The acoustics of a concert hall contributes a lot to the sound of the orchestra. If a venue needs amplification then it's not fit for purpose and I would never attend a classical music concert there, not even for free.
Classical music mustn't not be amplified.

I've once listened to orchestral and another time to opera outdoors. Awful idea.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

The acoustics of a concert hall contributes a lot to the sound of the orchestra. If a venue needs amplification then it's not fit for purpose and I would never attend a classical music concert there, not even for free.
Classical music mustn't not be amplified.

I've once listened to orchestral and another time to opera outdoors. Awful idea.

Pretty much my sentiments. It seems bizarre, perhaps ill thought out to schedule a orchestral performance in a venue that requires amplification/sound reinforcement. Such shows should be seen in a traditional music hall. Ive seen two (I know, I should see more) performances by the Toronto Symphony Orchestra at the Roy Thompson Hall, no reinforcement needed

Shakespeare sounds best on an outdoors stage, however.

 

[Soniclife]

I'm not sure if I've ever been to a classical concert that wasn't reinforced, it seems to be the norm in London, and everywhere else I've been.