Is C389 a good choice paired with KEF R500?

[lpopa93]

I currently own a NAD T758 v3i, paired KEF R500, R200c and R100. After 2 years I feel like I want a dedicated stereo amplifier for music. The C399 was on offer on my favourite AV Store for 1360USD/1190EUR but I waited a week and it's now out of stock. However, they still have a resealed C389, full warranty, for 908USD/795EUR. I read the DAC is very good, not as good as in the C399, but way better than on the AVR. Is it worth buying the C389 for the price for my speakers? Is it a substantial upgrade or should I wait to see if the C399 comes back for the discounted price? Competitors are selling it way more expensive, it's double the price of the resealed C389.

 

[DVDdoug]

I'm sure the amplifier is fine. Most Amplifiers are better than human hearing unless you are hearing noise or unless you over-drive it into clipping (distortion). Noise is tricky because whether it ro not depends on how close you are to the speakers, the sensitivity of your speakers and other noise in the room, et. And there's more than one way to measure noise so the specs aren't that helpful. (Of course this is ignoring tone controls or EQ.)

That's even more true with DACs. The only time I heard anything wrong with a "DAC", it was a noisy soundcard that made noises through the speakers when the hard drive was accessed. They don't all measure the same but they usually sound the same (in proper blind listening tests) and are "transparent" with no particular sound of their own.

 

[Multicore]

Is it worth buying the C389 for the price for my speakers?

I doubt it. You already have the NAD T758 v3i. What's wrong with that?

 

[kyuu]

I doubt it. You already have the NAD T758 v3i. What's wrong with that?

Agree.

OP, what do you imagine will change with a dedicated 2-channel amp? Is there something about your setup that isn't satisfying you? How have you determined that the amplifier is at fault?

 

[kemmler3D]

Well, the T578 will deliver 110wpc in a stereo configuration which is close to the R500's maximum recommended power. So unless you are regularly listening to these speakers very loud in stereo configuration a new amp probably won't deliver any audible benefit, as others have said.

But I noticed you only get 60w in a multichannel configuration, so if you have a larger room and you're pushing things very loud, it's conceivable a bigger amp will help.

As far as the quality of the DAC or other aspects of the amp, it's unlikely you would hear any difference. The real question is whether you are running short on power.

Per @Digital_Thor s comment this unit has questionable objective performance to the point that I'm retracting that comment.

 

[Digital_Thor]

I'm sure the amplifier is fine. Most Amplifiers are better than human hearing unless you are hearing noise or unless you over-drive it into clipping (distortion). Noise is tricky because whether it ro not depends on how close you are to the speakers, the sensitivity of your speakers and other noise in the room, et. And there's more than one way to measure noise so the specs aren't that helpful. (Of course this is ignoring tone controls or EQ.)

That's even more true with DACs. The only time I heard anything wrong with a "DAC", it was a noisy soundcard that made noises through the speakers when the hard drive was accessed. They don't all measure the same but they usually sound the same (in proper blind listening tests) and are "transparent" with no particular sound of their own.

You mean this beauty... With worst DAC measured ever...

Review and Measurements of NAD T758 V3 AVR

This is a review and detailed measurements of the NAD T758 V3 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). It was kindly sent to me by a member. The T758 appears to have been released last year and costs US $1,399. The T758 is quite a bit heavier than recently measured AVRs and has a serious...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[kemmler3D]

You mean this beauty... With worst DAC measured ever...

Review and Measurements of NAD T758 V3 AVR

This is a review and detailed measurements of the NAD T758 V3 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). It was kindly sent to me by a member. The T758 appears to have been released last year and costs US $1,399. The T758 is quite a bit heavier than recently measured AVRs and has a serious...

www.audiosciencereview.com

You know I should have looked for a review before I commented. That's really bad. 65 SINAD @1w says we are flirting with audible problems in normal use.

This is rare to say, because most amps are better than this, but @op I think you should go for the new amp.

 

[kyuu]

Damn, I forgot just how bad the T758 is (shameful, NAD). Even so, how much of that translates into actual audible issues is still not entirely clear. I would still want the OP to determine what problem, if any, they are having and whether that can actually be traced to the amp.

 

[xanalog]

Welcome to ASR, @lpopa93,

That's really bad. 65 SINAD @1w says we are flirting with audible problems in normal use.

The two replacement NADs that @lpopa93 is considering are no better, imo.
My suggestion to him would be to study the offerings at ASR reviews, and find other alternatives with better price-to-performance attributes to consider.

His options should not be restricted solely to 'integrated' receivers (AVRs), or hardware design that is older than a few years and absent of MQA features.

 

[kemmler3D]

Even so, how much of that translates into actual audible issues is still not entirely clear.

That's fair to say, but this thread inverts the usual new-user-advice thread situation. Usually people come in with questionable speakers and a decent amp, and want advice on a new amp.

In this case the speakers are solid, but the amp is very questionable. Whatever complaints OP has about the sound quality, I couldn't confidently say the amp is not the culprit. Not only is there a lot of noise and distortion but there's theoretically audible roll-off. And IMD is well above audible thresholds for a good range of input levels. I would not be surprised at all if someone could pick this amp out in a blind test. Something is very wrong with almost every metric.

Welcome to ASR, @lpopa93,

The two replacement NADs that @lpopa93 is considering are no better, imo.
My suggestion to him would be to study the offerings at ASR reviews, and find other alternatives with better price-to-performance attributes to consider.

His options should not be restricted solely to 'integrated' receivers (AVRs), or hardware design that is older than a few years and absent of MQA features.

C399 seems to perform pretty much fine but looks like C389 is questionable.

 

[xanalog]

C399 seems to perform pretty much fine but looks like C389 is questionable.

Quick view at Crutchfiled states:

180 watts x 2 channels into 8 or 4 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.02% THD
From <https://www.crutchfield.com/p_745C399/NAD-C-399.html>

An integrated AVR serves a purpose but longevity is always @ question.
Case in point is the inclusion of MQA for NAD C399.
Also, I did not bother looking at the HDMI version#, and willing to guess it may be no higher than HDMIv2.0.

 

[kemmler3D]

Quick view at Crutchfiled states:

An integrated AVR serves a purpose but longevity is always @ question.
Case in point is the inclusion of MQA for NAD C399.
Also, I did not bother looking at the HDMI version#, and willing to guess it may be no higher than HDMIv2.0.

What's interesting is the mfr. spec on the 399 is .02% THD but Soundstage measured it at .005%... if that number does hold up, I don't see an issue.