Is Bit Perfect DSD possible through Foobar2000 to Topping D50iii

[AUDACC]

I have been successfully playing PCM music files from a USB thumb drive or the SSD on my Windows i5 laptop through Fubar2000 to the USB interface of the D50iii. The sample rates of PCM files show correctly on the Foobar2000 display and match the D50 display.

The ASIO+DSD output and SACD input components are installed in Foobar2000.

A DSD128 file plays successfully when Foobar2000 “Output (per device)” set to “PCM” 44.4khz or 88.2khz and the output device is “ASIO+DSD : Topping USB Audio Device”. The sample rate of DSD128 (5.6448Mhz) file showed correctly on the Foobar2000 display and the 44.1khz or 88.2khz showed correctly on the D50.

According to the D50iii manual DSD files up to DSD512 are supported. However, when attempting to play a DSD128 file with the Foobar2000 “Output (per device)” set to “DSD” and the output device is “ASIO+DSD : Topping USB Audio Device”, a Foobar2000 error message is displayed that says the D50 doesn’t accept the 352.8khz data from Foobar2000.

Is the failure to successfully play bit perfect DSD files a settings issue or does the laptop lack the compute power to decode, process and transmit the DSD correctly to the USB port?

 

[Sokel]

I have been successfully playing PCM music files from a USB thumb drive or the SSD on my Windows i5 laptop through Fubar2000 to the USB interface of the D50iii. The sample rates of PCM files show correctly on the Foobar2000 display and match the D50 display.

The ASIO+DSD output and SACD input components are installed in Foobar2000.

A DSD128 file plays successfully when Foobar2000 “Output (per device)” set to “PCM” 44.4khz or 88.2khz and the output device is “ASIO+DSD : Topping USB Audio Device”. The sample rate of DSD128 (5.6448Mhz) file showed correctly on the Foobar2000 display and the 44.1khz or 88.2khz showed correctly on the D50.

According to the D50iii manual DSD files up to DSD512 are supported. However, when attempting to play a DSD128 file with the Foobar2000 “Output (per device)” set to “DSD” and the output device is “ASIO+DSD : Topping USB Audio Device”, a Foobar2000 error message is displayed that says the D50 doesn’t accept the 352.8khz data from Foobar2000.

Is the failure to successfully play bit perfect DSD files a settings issue or does the laptop lack the compute power to decode, process and transmit the DSD correctly to the USB port?

Do you have the Topping's ASIO driver installed?
What does its control panel shows?

 

[Sokel]

For DSD512 for example, it should look like this:

 

[AUDACC]

Do you have the Topping's ASIO driver installed?
What does its control panel shows?

No, just did plug and play and then downloaded and installed ASIO+DSD Foobar2k component from SourceForge. I went to the Topping page just now and learned that their ASIO driver should be downloaded and installed if using ASIO. I'll do that and report back. Thanks for the hint.

 

[drewdawg999]

I believe this DAC uses an ESS chip, which do not support bit perfect DSD. They just process it like PCM, sending it through the same modulators. Topping also doesn't believe in implementing DSD Direct, even when it's available on AKM chips.

The list of DACs that support bit perfect DSD is actually pretty short, and affordable options are basically SMSL D1, D200, and if you can find it, the old D-6. I own the D200 and the D-6 and they both perform well with DSD, there's an audible difference from PCM. If you don't need balanced outputs then the D1 would suffice.

 

[AUDACC]

Do you have the Topping's ASIO driver installed?
What does its control panel shows?

No, just did plug and play and then downloaded and installed ASIO+DSD Foobar2k component from SourceForge. I went to the Topping page just now and learned that their ASIO driver should be downloaded and installed if using ASIO. I'll do that and report back. Thanks for the hint.

Thanks for your interest in this problem. I downloaded and installed Topping ASIO driver 6.14.0. I uninstalled fb2k and reinstalled version 2.25.8. Also installed components "foo_out_asio+dsd-0.4.7" and "foo_input_sacd-2.0.21". PCM files play correctly at the sample rate indicated on fb2k and the D50 indicates the same data rate. All is good there. Attached is a screenshot of the driver control panel when playing a DSD128 file in the PCM mode at 88.2khz. That works. However, when the DSD mode is selected, the 352.8khz error occurs. What to try next?

 

[staticV3]

What to try next?

Here's how I've successfully played native DSD via Foobar in the past:


https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/dsd_transcoder/

Intead of "Comtrue ASIO Device GB" you should see a Topping ASIO interface.

 

[Sokel]

I would try the ASIO+DSD (Topping xxx) component along with SACD component, but NOT the new 2.0.xx versions, but the older 1.6.xx ones.
Works like a charm at any foobar I have try it .

 

[AUDACC]

Here's how I've successfully played native DSD via Foobar in the past:

View attachment 524796
https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/dsd_transcoder/

Intead of "Comtrue ASIO Device GB" you should see a Topping ASIO interface.

Thank you for your suggestion.

The components you suggested were available in later versions, so I downloaded and installed the later versions. Instead of "Comtrue ASIO Device GB" I see “Topping USB Audio Device” in the Transcoder 1.2.0 window.

When set as your screenshot: DSD> ASIO: DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native), the 352.8khz data rate error occurs when attempting to play a DSD128 file.

When set DSD> ASIO+DSD: DSD Transcoder (DoP/Native), the 5.6448Mhz data rate error occurs with a DSD128 file.

When DSD output (per device) is set to PCM, fb2k plays the DSD128 file showing a data rate of 5.6448 Mhz and 88.2khz shows on the D50.

This suggests that the D50 will not accept data at the native DSD rate, but must be packaged in a PCM format through the driver to the D50. Grok says that if the PCM style packaging is done correctly, the DSD file will play and the D50 front panel will show DSD64, DSD128,… indicating that the file is actualy playind at the DSD data rate. What settings can make this happen?

 

[AUDACC]

I believe this DAC uses an ESS chip, which do not support bit perfect DSD. They just process it like PCM, sending it through the same modulators. Topping also doesn't believe in implementing DSD Direct, even when it's available on AKM chips.

The list of DACs that support bit perfect DSD is actually pretty short, and affordable options are basically SMSL D1, D200, and if you can find it, the old D-6. I own the D200 and the D-6 and they both perform well with DSD, there's an audible difference from PCM. If you don't need balanced outputs then the D1 would suffice.

After multiple fb2k downloads, component swaps, restarts and general thrashing about, I think I have learned the hard way that you are correct. The D50iii with ESS chips does not accept native DSD.

 

[Chrispy]

After multiple fb2k downloads, component swaps, restarts and general thrashing about, I think I have learned the hard way that you are correct. The D50iii with ESS chips does not accept native DSD.

Curious, why isn't the earlier conversion of dsd good enough?

 

[drewdawg999]

After multiple fb2k downloads, component swaps, restarts and general thrashing about, I think I have learned the hard way that you are correct. The D50iii with ESS chips does not accept native DSD.

Well it is possible to get an ESS chip DAC to show DSD at the proper rate, but their native decoding still undergoes additional processing that is unwanted. I think PCM and DSD will sound the same for these DACs anyway so it's probably not worth the bother. Just convert to PCM and enjoy the music with that particular mastering...

But what you're looking for is a DSD Direct feature, it's actually quite rare for it to be implemented properly. That's why I recently got the SMSL D200, Rohm chips only decode DSD as DSD Direct so there's no choice. It's a subtle difference but I do believe it's within the limits of audibility. DSD Direct should be less sharp than PCM, which some would say makes it warmer and more analogue. It may come down to preference, but very few have heard proper DSD Direct.

 

[drewdawg999]

Thanks for your interest in this problem. I downloaded and installed Topping ASIO driver 6.14.0. I uninstalled fb2k and reinstalled version 2.25.8. Also installed components "foo_out_asio+dsd-0.4.7" and "foo_input_sacd-2.0.21". PCM files play correctly at the sample rate indicated on fb2k and the D50 indicates the same data rate. All is good there. Attached is a screenshot of the driver control panel when playing a DSD128 file in the PCM mode at 88.2khz. That works. However, when the DSD mode is selected, the 352.8khz error occurs. What to try next?

Have you configured the tab, Tools>DSD? Mine says SACD but I think I have an older component.

 

[AUDACC]

Have you configured the tab, Tools>DSD? Mine says SACD but I think I have an older component.

A component that was downloaded and installed last month listed SACD but it acted the same as this later component in that playing a DSD128 would cause a "352.8khz not supported" error.

 

[AUDACC]

Curious, why isn't the earlier conversion of dsd good enough?

I am not sure, just trying to find a way to listen for myself and decide.

 

[Scytales]

I do not understand why the matter of D/A converters is tackled in the thread, whereas the issue seems more to me to be at interface level. The Topping website clearly states that the D50 III accept DSD up to 512 rate. Have you contacted Topping directly to give them feedback about your configuration and the problem you encountered?

 

[AUDACC]

I do not understand why the matter of D/A converters is tackled in the thread, whereas the issue seems more to me to be at interface level. The Topping website clearly states that the D50 III accept DSD up to 512 rate. Have you contacted Topping directly to give them feedback about your configuration and the problem you encountered?

I thought I would try get a quick solution from the experts here before going through the formal customer service process. I'll contact Topping.

 

[Chrispy]

I am not sure, just trying to find a way to listen for myself and decide.

So you think you can hear which device converts it?

 

[AUDACC]

So you think you can hear which device converts it?

My impression is that every time there is a conversion a little noise and/or distortion is added to the data depending on the quality of the converter. I don't know what I will hear since I haven't had the chance to listen to any comparisons yet. Do you think multiple data format conversions can have an effect?

 

[Chrispy]

My impression is that every time there is a conversion a little noise and/or distortion is added to the data depending on the quality of the converter. I don't know what I will hear since I haven't had the chance to listen to any comparisons yet. Do you think multiple data format conversions can have an effect?

Possible perhaps, probable not so much. I certainly wouldn't make drastic adjustments to accommodate 2ch dsd....