"Is Audiophile Snobbery Ruining our Hobby ?"

[Vacceo]

I'd probably vote for Amir to head up the Audio Ministry of Truth... or Disinformation... or whatever they are calling it, these days. As far as animals? If he can put a chicken in everyone's pot he's definitely got the vote, although I'd personally prefer a mola mola

See? Those jokes I get. The ones on Klipsch, just thanks to this forum.

What I find isolating in tech or hobby forums is political discussion, not gear. US-centric politics (and it's bound to happen due to wealth, population and presence of US guys in the audio world) in international forums tend to become a massive shit show and tends to ruin the forum itself. I'm glad they aren't discussed here.

 

[Niconoclaste]

Hi everyone,
I’m a « new » member (I just decided to register In order to leave this message) but I one of those many « ghosts » which are learning a lot and paying attention on what‘s happening here for a long time. I’m not really fluent in english when In combes to writing by this way.

@amirm , like many of us here, I have to thank you for all that I learned thank’s to you.

I guess you and your baby, ASR, are at a corner that you didn’t expect as you may not expect this fame (including for the « general public ») :

- Keeping your baby as it is, for nerds, for a relatively close and high-skilled community, which allow high quality debates
- Modulating ASR to make this resources center suitable for both experts and beginners.

The fame of ASR gives also power and responsabilities in so far as more and more people (incl. newbies) are relying on Amir to take decisions.
It is not an easy question, and both answers are correct. I may be wrong, but I guess this question is (or should be) yours now.

Amir, what do you want for you and ASR ? How do you want people (nerds and newbies) see ASR ? How would you like ASR to become ?

Those questions are for you. Of course, you don’t need to reply me.
Sincerely, no matter what you decide to do, I feel thankfull and wish you the best.

 

[ex audiophile]

Well, i would say dont take it too seriously. He is entitled to his opinions and not everyone has to agree with it. Why let things on the internet upset you and spoil your day?

If Gene had any integrity he would invite Amir into the discussion and confront him directly. Making accusations from behind a microphone is cowardly.

 

[ex audiophile]

Topic already opened elsewhere...

In addition:

ASR is not mentioned at all and I'm sorry but he's actually right : A lot of (guest) readers here are widely relying on SINAD charts to rank products and even imagine their subjective listening based on it. Just check others forums, YT, etc... what people say outside ASR.


Unfortunately, you don't speak for all objectivists. From my perspective, the majority of readers (not experts) seem to believe that to be the case. Choosing electronic solely based on one SINAD number, or speaker on Olive's Score... I lost the count how many times I red that. Here or elsewhere, for that matter.

you should probably view the video before posting, could be embarrasing otherwise. I never said I speak for anyone other than myself, do you?

 

[Vacceo]

I just re-watched Audioholics's review of the Anthem MRX líne and I feel a bit puzzled.

That review is based on hard data, tests and numbers that Gene explains very well. Power output, crosstalk, SINAD, DAC measures... They are all there, tested and explained.

Why then, the change of tone?

 

[tomtoo]

Then I stand corrected and feel sorry for the misunderstanding. Would be fair to read what I said, tho: Readers ≠ regular members. As you know, guests are usually 70 to 80% of people online. Not to mention plenty of registered people that doesn't post at all.


In a perfect world, anyone would knows. Looking at others forums or YT comments on many subjectivists influencers videos , you're actually "deaf and only listen to graphs".


Couldn't agree more... but, again, we are talking apples and oranges. People reading ASR (= many audiophiles, when looking at insane traffic scores this last year) and ASR members are, again, two different things.


Good, because I do not speak for you. You're a regular member and do absolutely not represent readers here.


None. It's not on you or your work. It's about people on the internet.

Lets imagine you are right about some readers. What should/could @amirm and we do against it?

 

[Music1969]

Why then, the change of tone?

He doesn't have a problem with Amir.

He has a problem with the SINAD ranking and some people on this forum being overly obsessed about it.

This is a common thing I see on other forums too.

I wonder if @amirm scrapped the SINAD ranking from his product reviews and just kept "awards" to the pink panther, if that would change perception of the ASR, elsehwere

 

[AdamG]

Duplicate Threads Merged together here. FYI.

 

[Katji]

No, it would not - they all have other problems/"issues." ...Their problems, not mine - and i never see their websites/forums/videos.

"He has a problem with..." some people on ASR being obsessed with it...? WTF is he anyway? Why should we care what he has a problem with?!

 

[Jim Shaw]

HT obsessed pundits have less regard for SINAD and linearity -- and a lot more on thump, crash, screams, and boom. There isn't as much similarity between HT and 2CH as "they both have amplifiers and speakers." Pundits don't want to dwell on this, because most make their YT paycheck on subscribers and views, and want both kinds of humans to click on them. It's all about the point of view.
-Just one man's theory.

 

[ex audiophile]

No, it would not - they all have other problems/"issues." ...Their problems, not mine - and i never see their websites/forums/videos.

"He has a problem with..." some people on ASR being obsessed with it...? WTF is he anyway? Why should we care what he has a problem with?!

I understand your point, but Audioholics is not a small homemade channel, it has had a large number of subscribers. Speaking only for myself, I believe that Amir and his professional colleagues have transformed audio much for the better. The time, effort and dollars put in by Amir is remarkable and greatly appreciated. I do not like to see this site disparaged by others who appear to be envious, small minded people. Am I biased in favor of ASR? Absolutely.

 

[Katji]

I have had never heard of "Gene".

A post that apparently assumes that we all know who Gene is. Really. OTOH, a post re LGBT forum members/community gets so many people's knickers in a knot.

Referring and promoting these arseholes here is ridiculous.

PS: And now I [unfollow] this thread.

 

[AdamG]

Whoops apparently I missed a few posts in the merge. Fixed now. Sorry folks.

 

[Vacceo]

Audioholics may be controversial on the forums (what forum isn´t?) and Gene himself may be subject to criticism (like any human being), but at least for his numbers, I have no reason to doubt his tests, graphs and explanations. Unless you guys, can prove his work faulty (that is, peer reviewing, as we´re talking science), I honestly trust his judgement in terms of testing and veredict from that testing.

All the personality elements, well, that´s Gene´s and he has all the rights to like or dislike whatever he considers.

EDIT: I think his comments about ASR are unfortunate and undeserved, but in all honesty, Amir, Erin or any other objective reviewer (like a lot of Gene´s reviews) cannot control what people do with their work...

 

[tomtoo]

Again what should or can we do if some readers fixate, to much numberphile, on sinad? Its a usefull number, not more not less.

 

[VintageFlanker]

you should probably view the video before posting, could be embarrasing otherwise.

I effectively watched it entirely yesterday and missed that very moment for a second. You're right, ASR is clearly mentioned at 12:47, followed by "they're all trying to categorize products", which is absolutely wrong if talking straightly about ASR folks (I stand when talking about overall readers).

Lets imagine you are right about some readers. What should/could @amirm and we do against it?

Nothing, really. Vulgarisation has gone a long way, already. Even more with the YT channel. It is now up to common readers to pay attention to details or not.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

He doesn't have a problem with Amir.

He has a problem with the SINAD ranking and some people on this forum being overly obsessed about it.

This is a common thing I see on other forums too.

I wonder if @amirm scrapped the SINAD ranking from his product reviews and just kept "awards" to the pink panther, if that would change perception of the ASR, elsehwere

No, it wouldn't...because the SINAD thing is just a strawman and if it were removed as a potential complaint then they'd move on to something else to complain about. There's no problem at all with the SINAD chart. Anyone who's paying any attention at all recognizes it for what it is - one part of the equation. Most of us also recognize that other factors come into play as well (which have nothing to do with the measurements) such as features, build, appearance. If there's "readers" who drop in here and decide SINAD is all they should be interested in that's on them to do some more "reading."

 

[antcollinet]

He doesn't have a problem with Amir.

He has a problem with the SINAD ranking and some people on this forum being overly obsessed about it.

This is a common thing I see on other forums too.

I wonder if @amirm scrapped the SINAD ranking from his product reviews and just kept "awards" to the pink panther, if that would change perception of the ASR, elsehwere

Who is obsessed with Sinad? What is your evidence for this?

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

Who is obsessed with Sinad? What is your evidence for this?

I want to add something to this conversation, from what I've read time to time here it cannot be held as evidence but it is *easy* at times to scroll the forum and read comments from members that were often either SINAD-biased or price-biased.
#1 example from my head is the continuous comparison of that $9 apple dongle to many, many review threads. I feel annoyed every time I see a comment that goes like "wow this product measures [average/good/great] but at X price why should I get it over [cheapest product that offers score the highest SINAD possible]". This is not an exaggeration, some folks do talk like that while ignoring completely the product class, different usability, features and other factors...

#2 is when I feel like people overcriticize a product and sometimes the people that would use/buy it. Even if their comments are factually correct they can be harsh and unnecessarily rude at times and that's something that can definitely make an impression. There could be more (or not) but that's all I remember right now

Of course a vocal and flawed minority does not AND should not reflect nor represent the entire community, but to some people that might be enough to gather an impression that this website heavily favors SINAD (even though it's not that), specifically when it is already above the audible threshold so I don't think we can just say that it's always the reader's fault for not reading enough or so. I say this because I did read and lurk here for a considerable amount of time and that's exactly why I can say this after thinking about both sides (ASR members & outsiders).

 

[Rick Sykora]

I see no benefit provided by this video other than to serve the interests of those who produced it. From the click bait title to the content, it is all about painting a unflattering picture of others while trying to claim they have the better approach.

Reminds me of media pundits that go around blaming “the media”.

All of them need to take a hard look in the mirror IMO.