Is America losing it?

[svart-hvitt]

The American audio industry is on a decline. Real innovation happens elsewhere.

If you are looking for integrated, innovative audio systems, you need to go to Europe. Just think about the integrated systems of B&O, Genelec, Kii Audio, Devialet etc.

The American audio industry is going the same way as the American auto industry. Think about the more rational, technologically advanced European models compared to big, bulky, old-fashioned American cars. The Europeans make Porsche 911s, while the Americans make Ford Mustangs.

One of the latest innovation of the American audio industry is JBL's M2. Unsurprisingly, it's big, noisy and old-school where its European counterparts are sleek, silent and innovative.

Rant over...

However: Is this just ranting or is there some truth there?

So let's get some science into this discussion.

Four years ago, MIT published a huge research effort into understanding the industrial landscape of the USA. Here's an excerpt from the report on Production in the Innovation Economy (PIE):

"The wave of disappearance of many small- and medium-sized suppliers creates worrisome and still relatively unknown degrees of dependence on foreign suppliers for U.S. military contractors. Across the entire industrial landscape there are now gaping holes and missing pieces. It’s not just that factories stand empty and crumbling; it’s that critical strengths and capabilities have disappeared that once served to bring new enterprises to life. Economic progress may be preceded by waves of creative destruction, as Joseph Schumpeter claimed. But we need to know whether the resources that remain are fertile enough to seed and sustain new growth".*

The report is recommended reading for everyone who tries to understand how industrial strength is built and is concerned about the decline of industry in America and certain other Western countries.

My point is this: Is the American audio industry losing to competitors in Europe and Asia where you still have clusters of engineering and production expertise that can design and build a product from A to Z? Can the decline of for example JBL Pro be seen through the lenses of the MIT study? Does the MIT report have relevance for the audio industry?

*Link to the report: http://web.mit.edu/pie/news/PIE_Preview.pdf
Link to the MIT PIE web page: http://web.mit.edu/pie/
Link to the book "Making in America": https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/making-america

 

[Cosmik]

My gut instinct would be that it is the result of 'national complacency'. When you become the most powerful country in the world, in charge of the global currency, you don't have to try too hard - and this will extend all the way down to individuals. And over a few generations, with no immediate economic worries, a country could turn inwards on itself, beating itself up for its past perceived misdemeanours, sabotaging its own vitality with layers of well-meaning laws and regulations and gestures designed to assuage perceived guilt over inherited privilege.

 

[Thomas savage]

Errr, the iPod ...

America is plenty innovative, when there's money to be made. Take a look at the balance sheets of those 'innovative' European audio companies you mention and get back to me

Plus restraint and constriction is the mother of invention. We have small bendy roads and expensive fuel prices so... we also have small listening rooms or no listening room at all

But it's intresting to extrapolate the contributing factors in the perceived lack of innovation, there's a ton of innovation happen in the states though. Software , social media not to mention the way companies like Facebook are run. All those silicone valley start ups and new apps changing people's life's..

There has been a move away from making the physical, maybe that has unforeseen consequences as suggested but that's transition seems to be a natural economic evolution albeit possibly no other economy has tread this exact ground before though a few are in transition.

 

[svart-hvitt]

My gut instinct would be that it is the result of 'national complacency'. When you become the most powerful country in the world, in charge of the global currency, you don't have to try too hard - and this will extend all the way down to individuals. And over a few generations, with no immediate economic worries, a country could turn inwards on itself, beating itself up for its past perceived misdemeanours, sabotaging its own vitality with layers of well-meaning laws and regulations and gestures designed to assuage perceived guilt over inherited privilege.

Maybe you're right.

However, it's not as if America has lost everything. Americans are still good at designing things, but they can't produce them. Just think about the iPhone (check out the iPhone question in this package: http://inequalityforall.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/A_Visual_StoryPDF.pdf ).

The problem about design is that most people must work building things instead of designing them. And when you separate design from production, you might lose something?

So what do you think about American audio? Is it on a decline?

 

[Purité Audio]

I believe Samsung have hired some acousticians/technicians
from B&O so there is hope, the Bacch system is pretty neat.
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

Maybe you're right.

However, it's not as if America has lost everything. Americans are still good at designing things, but they can't produce them. Just think about the iPhone (check out the iPhone question in this package: http://inequalityforall.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/A_Visual_StoryPDF.pdf ).

The problem about design is that most people must work building things instead of designing them. And when you separate design from production, you might lose something?

So what do you think about American audio? Is it on a decline?

No it's not losing anything it's simply reacting to demand and changing priorities accordingly, if America becomes insular and gets obsessed about its domestic production over embracing world trade then it might lose something .

I live in the u.k we don't make any domestic cars or motorbikes anymore but Iv got plenty of great ones to chose from.. some are even assembled here. They are all better , cheaper and more reliable than the models we used design and make.

economic evolution, it can be scary but that's no reason to look back in fear. .. stride on with confidence.

 

[Cosmik]

No it's not losing anything it's simply reacting to demand and changing priorities accordingly, if America becomes insular and gets obsessed about its domestic production over embracing world trade then it might lose something .

I live in the u.k we don't make any domestic cars or motorbikes anymore but Iv got plenty of great ones to chose from.. some are even assembled here. They are all better , cheaper and more reliable than the models we used design and make.

Isn't that the point, though? A country like the UK can become complacent about its God-given right to buy the world's finest stuff while forgetting how to do it itself. It may not be sustainable in the long term.

 

[Thomas savage]

Isn't that the point, though? A country like the UK can become complacent about its God-given right to buy the world's finest stuff while forgetting how to do it itself. It may not be sustainable in the long term.

No it's not the point or if it is it's moot, you can't maintain a manufacturing based economy AND increase living standards to a point we have here and they have across the pond without Other industries developing and taking over as our social economic circumstances evolve, not to mention us all getting middle class and worrying about climate change and employment laws/rights etc ( so bang goes making things, digging up coal etc).

Is that bad? It's irrelevant as it's unavoidable. Still intresting to think about and obviously there's a lot more to the above but regardless it seems to be a unavoidable evolutionary course.

Not to mention , multiple nations having mutual vested interests ( needing each other) is the single best way to ensure we don't have another world war. That's well worth forgetting the best way to make a monkey wrench imo .

If we have lost anything it's a collective ambition, like the ambition to explore space.. we all have become some what self serving and short sighted and That's a shame imo.

 

[svart-hvitt]

One question: Am I right in observing that most of the interesting audio gear these days come from Europe?

Genelec just introduced cloud based DSP. Just think about the possible side effects of knowing all about your customers’ sonic challenges!

 

[Thomas savage]

One question: Am I right in observing that most of the interesting audio gear these days come from Europe?

Genelec just introduced cloud based DSP. Just think about the possible side effects of knowing all about your customers’ sonic challenges!

Yes, we need all that in our tiny houses but who's going to buy it? The big market for Audio innovation is automotive, who's making ground there?

 

[NorthSky]

Europeans are more sophisticated than Americans, in general when it comes to audio innovation, food innovation, car innovation and fashion innovation...Haute couture.

The music, there is good music from both continents, and bad as well.
The quality recordings, that is an area where Europeans are again more sophisticated and dedicated, in my sincere and personal experienced opinion.

* I like threads like these. It's good for the brain, good for the conversation, good for the free expression of the free world.

 

[Thomas savage]

Europeans are more sophisticated than Americans, in general when it comes to audio innovation, food innovation, car innovation and fashion innovation...Haute couture.

The music, there is good music from both continents, and bad as well.
The quality recordings, that is an area where Europeans are again more sophisticated and dedicated, in my sincere and personal experienced opinion.

* I like threads like these. It's good for the brain, good for the conversation, good for the free expression of the free world.

A common misconception, Iv traveled around the states extensively and have lived in Europe ( uk ) for 38 years and have traveled about here too ( including continental Europe) and that myth just does not hold true at all.

 

[svart-hvitt]

A common misconception, Iv traveled around the states extensively and have lived in Europe ( uk ) for 38 years and have traveled about here too and that myth just does not hold true at all.

The UK is different. The British isles cannot be compared to continental Europe.

It’s a long discussion. Inches and pounds are just symptoms...

I salute differences, and am therefore wary about making the Brits into continental Europeans.

 

[Thomas savage]

The UK is different. The British isles cannot be compared to continental Europe.

It’s a long discussion. Inches and pounds are just symptoms...

I salute differences, and am therefore wary about making the Brits into continental Europeans.

Well can you compare the french with the Danish? Lumping all of continental Europe together is no more appropriate Imo.

I'd actually suggest Britons have a deal in common with the Germans , more so than either likes to admit.

Alas that's a distraction, the point remains there's ample basket cases as there are sophisticated folk on each side of the Atlantic. There plenty of social sophistication in California, if that's the word for it. Likely it's all happening several decades from our age range here

@NorthSky i think the french invented arrogance

Let's move away from the undertones of political protestation that seem to lace your post bob, it will inevitably lead to a protest to the country and I don't want that here.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Well can you compare the french with the Danish? Lumping all of continental Europe together is no more appropriate Imo.

I'd actually suggest Britons have a deal in common with the Germans , more so than either likes to admit.

Alas that's a distraction, the point remains there's ample basket cases as there are sophisticated folk on each side of the Atlantic. There plenty of social sophistication in California, if that's the word for it. Likely it's all happening several decades from our age range here

@NorthSky i think the french invented arrogance

Let's move away from the undertones of political protestation that seem to lace your post bob, it will inevitably lead to a protest to the country and I don't want that here.

Thomas,

I don't see why you talk about political undertones in my post.

I was initially referring to an MIT report on industrial competitiveness and how America is doing competitively in an "innovation economy".

In other words: I don't understand why you brought politics into this.

 

[Thomas savage]

Thomas,

I don't see why you talk about political undertones in my post.

I was initially referring to an MIT report on industrial competitiveness and how America is doing competitively in an "innovation economy".

In other words: I don't understand why you brought politics into this.

That's because I didn't as there were non ( is your name bob too? )

.. bob ( northsky) deleted his post with the aforementioned undertones of political protest .

Thanks bob, you know how that gets out of hand real quick.

 

[svart-hvitt]

That's because I didn't as there were non ( is your name bob too? )

Oh, I took it that you used the colloquial version of "bob"...

I think "bob" can mean about anything, from a to mate, bloke, quid, dollar and almost whatever...

Lost in translation...

 

[Thomas savage]

Oh, I took it that you used the colloquial version of "bob"...

I think "bob" can mean about anything, from a to mate, bloke, quid, dollar and almost whatever...

Lost in translation...

Often he's your uncle but I'm not blaming him either though he's bound to be guilty of something

 

[RayDunzl]

US seems to be doing poorly because you guys steal all our good ideas!

 

[dallasjustice]

Hold my hair.

Europeans are more sophisticated than Americans, in general when it comes to audio innovation, food innovation, car innovation and fashion innovation...Haute couture.

The music, there is good music from both continents, and bad as well.
The quality recordings, that is an area where Europeans are again more sophisticated and dedicated, in my sincere and personal experienced opinion.

* I like threads like these. It's good for the brain, good for the conversation, good for the free expression of the free world.