Is Amateur Piano Recording This Hard?

[danadam]

Yes, that's correct. Youtube converts to the maximum of Opus 160 kbps.

Personally I've never seen anything with actual bitrate higher than 140 +/- a few.

 

[Ifrit]

160 would have average around those numbers, I’d guess

 

[Toltek]

Is this a good recording? Not many likes or even views in 2 years.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Is this a good recording? Not many likes or even views in 2 years.

I like it, thanks!

 

[OnLyTNT]

Is this a good recording? Not many likes or even views in 2 years.

Not enough cleavage...

 

[Tangband]

Adding on, when reading the comments, not one person says anything about bad recordings! Are folks this tolerant of distortion and bad sound quality?

Its hard to record a piano in a good way . You need to get the critical distance correct with the distance from mic to the piano and the room - and you need very good microphones.
It took me one year of trying , learning and recording a grand piano , trying many mic positions before the recorded sound became reference quality.

First mistake was to put the microphones at the best listeningposition in the concert hall, with a very bad recording result. Second - one must decide If the recording is optimized for headphones or for speaker listening , the distance between the microphones at the recording will be very different .

The people doing those recordings with bad quality on youtube knows nothing about recording.

 

[John Atkinson]

@John Atkinson has done some really good piano recordings.

Thank you.

On the general subject of piano recordings, I have always had a piano technician/tuner on call, to make sure the piano is in optimal condition before each session.

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile

 

[blueone]

Thank you.

On the general subject of piano recordings, I have always had a piano technician/tuner on call, to make sure the piano is in optimal condition before each session.

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile

Track 10 (Chopin Scherzo in D minor played by Anna Maria Stanczyk) of your first Test CD is not only a very good recording of a great performance, but my go-to test for good stereo imaging. If the "Well done!" exclamation at the end of the track doesn't seem to emanate from significantly beyond the left speaker position, I know something isn't right about the system, its positioning, or the room. It's the most binary imaging test I've encountered.

 

[MRC01]

This recording was done on an essentially broken piano. The full story in the liner notes is as interesting as hilarious.
...
To me it adds to the impression that I’m listening to an actual event involving an actual musician, which is something I often forget with perfect recordings of perfect performances.

I have this recording and was going to mention it as an example - but you beat me to it!
I agree with your sentiment and enjoy enthusiastic/vibrant performances from skilled amateurs. But I don't know what a "perfect" performance is, not sure that I've ever heard one.

 

[MRC01]

I like it, thanks!

The young lady in the first row doesn't seem to like it. Or that could just be the "my parents made me come here and listen to this" grumpiness.
One of the best piano recordings in my collection happens to be another Abduraimov performance.

Behzod Abduraimov - Debussy, Chopin, Mussorgsky

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 2021 CD release of "Debussy, Chopin, Mussorgsky" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

It sounds just a touch soft, yet in a natural way. The detail is all there but subtle. Lifelike piano timbre and and huge realistic dynamics.

 

[earlevel]

Is this a good recording? Not many likes or even views in 2 years.

I think a good (or great) piano recording is less about the exact tone of the piano and its recording, or whether it has too little or too much room, but whether it conveys the performance. If recording engineers might argue about how they would have done it differently, that shouldn't matter if it's enjoyed.

This sounds great to me, I don't need to look at the video for it to give me the excitement of the performance. I can imagine being in the room. Very nice.

 

[julian_hughes]

When I saw this thread I immediately thought of the movie "Glenn Gould - The Alchemist". There is one of the most distinctive and technically brilliant pianists you might ever hear, at the peak of his recording career, at the zenith of the world of analogue recording, just prior to the digital revolution. So sophisticated mic placements, meticulous production and multiple takes and splicing the very best portions together to attempt a kind of pristine perfection never possible in live performance. And of course a performer totally dedicated to the studio, someone who plainly says he wants everyone to sample his work and modify and improve it. I bet his record label winced but at the time this was beyond the capability of any but professional studios. The contrast between this perfectionist, who *hated* public performance, and people showboating their ego on youtube or social media is striking.

 

[Ifrit]

On the general subject of piano recordings, I have always had a piano technician/tuner on call, to make sure the piano is in optimal condition before each session.

That would be an SOP for any recording session with piano, they need touch-ups regularly during the process.

I think a good (or great) piano recording is less about the exact tone of the piano and its recording, or whether it has too little or too much room, but whether it conveys the performance.

It isn't just about piano recordings, but any music recording that captures live playing by the artist, I'd think.

Is this a good recording? Not many likes or even views in 2 years.

One of the best piano recordings in my collection happens to be another Abduraimov performance.

He is not exceedingly interesting pianist to my tastes, but I do like his solid performances when I get to hear/record them now and then. Will check that recording, thanks for posting the link!

 

[robwpdx]

This article is part of the DPA link I posted:

Piano Microphones - How to mic and record a grand piano

Guidelines for miking the grand piano with DPA Microphones.

www.dpamicrophones.com

 

[Tangband]

This article is part of the DPA link I posted:

Piano Microphones - How to mic and record a grand piano

Guidelines for miking the grand piano with DPA Microphones.

www.dpamicrophones.com

It seems to be rather good advices. The distance from mic to piano strings must be set according to the mic used and the amount of reverb in the concert hall. It may be somewhere between 50cm - 1.5 meter ( 50 cm if its a very reverberant room ) with two good omni microphones. I use 53 cm space between my omni microphones , and this is optimal for listening through 2 stereo loudspeakers after the recording is done.

This will sound like sitting about 5 meters away from the Grand piano in the concert hall.

The above is when recording without external reverb and with classical music.

 

[danadam]

Personally I've never seen anything with actual bitrate higher than 140 +/- a few.

Let me retract the above because Michael Murray - J.S. Bach: Prelude and Fugue in G Major, BWV 541 has 160 kbps:

Average bitrate: 160.5 kb/s, w/o overhead: 159.4 kb/s

 

[dfuller]

Piano is a notoriously hard instrument to mic up properly. Very difficult to close mic without it becoming a phase nightmare (speaking from experience here), so you invariably need a good room.

As for the videos in OP, that's a cell phone mic.

 

[RayDunzl]

@amirm

If I may recommend a couple of "easy listening" recordings:

Carla Bley - Go Together and Duets, from 1993 and 1988

Both are just piano and 4 string bass guitar, mostly re-arrangements of the scores for her previous bands.

If you look at the waveform I'd be surprised if there wasn't 6dB headroom on both, signal reaching only half-height on the graph.

I'd verify, but my optical drives on the PC have quietly gone on vacation from the operating system.

Probably Both are AAD recordings

As for You Tube, amateurs have access, so, good luck.

30 years later, still working.

BonziBuddy2023 says:

"Carla Bley's album "Go Together" was recorded live at the Teatro Fondamenta Nuove in Venice, Italy, in 1992. The album "Duets" was recorded at Grog Kill Studio in Willow, New York, in 1988."

"Grog Kill Studio is a recording studio located in Willow, New York, USA. It was founded in the early 1980s by engineer and producer, Robert Musso. The studio is known for its high-quality recordings and has been used by many notable musicians and bands, including Pharoah Sanders, John Zorn, Bill Laswell, and Sonic Youth.

The studio is situated in a converted barn on a 40-acre property in the Catskill Mountains. The location provides a quiet and natural environment that is conducive to creativity and focus. The studio has state-of-the-art equipment and a flexible layout that allows for a variety of recording setups.

Over the years, Grog Kill Studio has become a hub for avant-garde and experimental music. Musicians are drawn to the studio's unique atmosphere and the technical expertise of its staff. The studio has also been used for film and television soundtracks, as well as commercial jingles and voiceovers.

Today, Grog Kill Studio continues to operate as a leading recording facility in the Hudson Valley region of New York."

 

[computer-audiophile]

If I may recommend a couple of "easy listening" recordings:

Carla Bley ...

Good pick! I recently bought an LP of Carla Bley for the honour, although I can also stream her tracks. I like her and the band.

 

[RayDunzl]

I have all but her early avant garde recordings in the rack.

Escalator Over the Hill (worth a listen) pretty much ended that era (but didn't quite start the next) as she went out more on her own.

A favorite section in that is what I would call the most heinous (for lack of a better word) saxophone solo I can think of, by Pharoah Sanders, but it works.