Is Amateur Piano Recording This Hard?

[danadam]

"Much better" than the earlier posts is certainly true, but you sort of hit the Everest of recordings/performances with that one.

It seems, then, like the best example to show that youtube has nothing to do with the other examples sounding bad, and it's all about recording/mixing/mastering.

 

[Travis]

It seems, then, like the best example to show that youtube has nothing to do with the other examples sounding bad, and it's all about recording/mixing/mastering.

I think that would be true of all platforms where the files/streaming is the same. I think there was differences in the video quality between the home/phone ones were and the quality that ended up with the Sony BluRay. The CD and DVD sound a lot better than the Youtube through my computer monitors. That could be due to a lot of things.

 

[BlackTalon]

@John Atkinson has done some really good piano recordings.

 

[OnLyTNT]

You can do so much better relative to what I post in the OP. Here is an example:

At the end of the video we can observe placements of some mics. Years ago someone in a diy mic builders group did a piano recording with diy mics with cheap capsules, similarly positioned and the result was quite satisfying. It's not that hard but most of the musicians are oblivious about recording technics and mostly they record videos to show off.

 

[Rednaxela]

Suboptimal recording quality can also be an asset.

I like the intimate feel it creates here.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Suboptimal recording quality can also be an asset.

I like the intimate feel it creates here.

Okay, you can think of it all as a phenomenon. I usually cringe when I hear something that I perceive as wrong. Some time ago, I discovered a younger pianist on Deezer playing on a piano that is half broken and producing strong mechanical noises. The floor and his stool are also creaking. But he plays very well and it is probably his artistic intention. At first I thought there was something wrong with my stereo. But then it was reproducible.

 

[theREALdotnet]

With Bach being routinely played on a Steinway these days, I think anything goes.

 

[Rednaxela]

This recording was done on an essentially broken piano. The full story in the liner notes is as interesting as hilarious.

Bach: Two and Three Part Inventions, BWV 772-801 (Inventions & Sinfonias) – Glenn Gould

glenngould.com

To me it adds to the impression that I’m listening to an actual event involving an actual musician, which is something I often forget with perfect recordings of perfect performances.

 

[computer-audiophile]

With Bach being routinely played on a Steinway these days, I think anything goes.

Since we no longer have room for a large grand piano at our home, Kawai upright will have to do for my wife's home use.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I am not quite clear what sound quality can be transmitted in Youtoube videos. I see it mostly only as preview quality not for serious listening. Does anyone know more specific?

No answer from the forum?
No Problem, ChatGBT knows:

The maximum audio quality that a YouTube video can have depends on various factors, including the audio codecs used and the settings of the video uploader. Generally, YouTube supports a maximum audio bitrate of 320 kbps.

The bit rate or bit depth used for recording audio for YouTube can be up to 24 bits. This means that each audio sample can be encoded with up to 24 bits. The standard sampling rate is 44.1 kHz, which means that 44,100 samples are recorded per second.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I have been watching a lot of short piano videos. With almost no exception, they sound so distorted and poor to me. I assume some are recorded using iPhones and such. Others appear to have pro videographers yet the sound is just awful. Are they just doing a poor job or is it this difficult? I mostly hear the distortion from the bass notes. Some examples:

This one seems under water:

Every one of her videos sound bad in a different way!

Another under water:

This one screwed up the image too:

Another one with good image but so bad of a recording:

Professional recordings sound infinitely better no matter which album I listen to. Any ideas?

IME one of the most important things about sound recording is to set the levels to keep the recording below clipping. Piano has a lot of dynamic range and most people use something with auto levels to do videos and they are all very poor so pretty hopeless to get good sound on an amateur video recording of something with sudden peaks like a piano.
When you set levels on piano to avoid clipping you get a surprisingly “quiet” recording so most commercial recordings use compression to raise the average level without clipping. I don’t much like this either - but we don’t often get full dynamic range recordings since so may listeners wouldn’t be able to play them.

 

[danadam]

No answer from the forum?
No Problem, ChatGBT knows:

Clearly, it doesn't know.
(1. show me a link to youtube with 320 kbps audio, 2. bit rate is not the same as bit depth)

 

[computer-audiophile]

Clearly, it doesn't know.
(1. show me a link to youtube with 320 kbps audio, 2. bit rate is not the same as bit depth)

OK, what is your level of knowledge in this regard?
Can you give me a more specific answer to my question? That would be very helpful and appreciated.

I repeat my question:

I am not quite clear what sound quality can be transmitted in YouTube videos. I see it mostly only as preview quality not for serious listening. Does anyone know more specific?

 

[tomtoo]

OK, what is your level of knowledge in this regard?
Can you give me a more specific answer to my question? That would be very helpful and appreciated.

I repeat my question:

I would say most commen is 128kbs aac. Thats maybe not the best possible, but definitly not the reason for the distourtion.

 

[danadam]

Can you give me a more specific answer to my question? That would be very helpful and appreciated.

It's Opus codec at around 128 kbps if the codec is supported by the browser. If it's not supported, it will be AAC codec. If network bandwidth is limited, the bitrate will be smaller. You can use yt-dlp program to see what formats are available. For example for that Lang Lang video it shows:

ID  EXT   RESOLUTION FPS CH │   FILESIZE   TBR PROTO │ VCODEC          VBR ACODEC      ABR ASR MORE INFO
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
...
600 webm  audio only      2 │    2.20MiB   37k dash  │ audio only          opus        37k 48k ultralow, webm_dash
139 m4a   audio only      2 │    2.91MiB   49k dash  │ audio only          mp4a.40.5   49k 22k low, m4a_dash
249 webm  audio only      2 │    3.24MiB   54k dash  │ audio only          opus        54k 48k low, webm_dash
250 webm  audio only      2 │    4.29MiB   72k dash  │ audio only          opus        72k 48k low, webm_dash
140 m4a   audio only      2 │    7.73MiB  129k dash  │ audio only          mp4a.40.2  129k 44k medium, m4a_dash
251 webm  audio only      2 │    8.41MiB  141k dash  │ audio only          opus       141k 48k medium, webm_dash

In the browser you can right click on the video and choose "Stats for nerds" to see which stream is currently used:

 

[computer-audiophile]

Thanks, with this info I can do something.

 

[computer-audiophile]

If I want to understand the YouTube Info of the Lang Lang video. What does the number 399 in brackets after Codecs mean?

Opus (251) means that the video is streamed with 141k bandwidth and 48k resolution. (Is that right?)

 

[danadam]

If I want to understand the YouTube Info of the Lang Lang video. What does the number 399 in brackets after Codecs mean?

Opus (251) means that the video is streamed with 141k bandwidth and 48k resolution. (Is that right?)

In the "Codecs" line in "Stats for nerds" you get: video_codec / audio_codec
251 and 399 are internal IDs for codecs that youtube is using. 251 is an ID for audio codec Opus and 399 is an ID for video codec AV1. Their parameters reported by yt-dlp are:

ID  EXT   RESOLUTION FPS CH │   FILESIZE   TBR PROTO │ VCODEC          VBR ACODEC      ABR ASR MORE INFO
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
251 webm  audio only      2 │    8.41MiB  141k dash  │ audio only          opus       141k 48k medium, webm_dash
399 mp4   1920x1080   30    │   92.42MiB 1549k dash  │ av01.0.08M.08 1549k video only          1080p, mp4_dash

 

[tomtoo]

Opus(251) means opus audio with 160kbps.

"The format code 251 "opus@160k" is the best audio quality in this situation."

Take it with a grain of salt. Just a fast lookup.

But its plausible couse with a yt downloader best you can get is opus 160k.

 

[Ifrit]

Yes, that's correct. Youtube converts to the maximum of Opus 160 kbps.