Is Amateur Piano Recording This Hard?

[audio2920]

I guess three things are a bit unusual to a piano compared to most instruments: dynamics, size (or "directivity"...?) and the actual "sound" of it of course.

On the last point, I often find the nature of piano can cause some mics & speakers difficulty with distortions. Not a problem for good/appropriate mics, but I suppose an iPhone will struggle.

So, yes IMHO, those three factors combined do mean it could be considered a bit tricky. But as with all things... If you're someone who has all the kit, a decent sounding room (allowing more freedom of mic positioning) and records piano all the time, it probably becomes rather easy I've only done a few myself, and not for my day job.

Don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but several times it's been piano that's alerted me to a failing driver (especially tweeters) before any other instrument. And it never survives lossy compressing very well to my ear.

 

[thecheapseats]

...I am watching these videos as inspiration while I am learning to play the piano...

good - stay on it... inspiration is motivation... one of my motivational events was the only time I ever stood outside a concert venue asking/begging for a 'spare ticket'...

it was to see Van Cliburn perform Beethoven's 5th piano concerto (the Emperor concerto) at the hollywood bowl... an older man whose girlfriend had decided not to go said, "yeah, here ya' go kid - they're great seats".. his pair of seats were left hand side, in the first few rows behind the box picnic seats looking over Van Cliburn's right shoulder as he played...

 

[Holmz]

I have been watching a lot of short piano videos. With almost no exception, they sound so distorted and poor to me. I assume some are recorded using iPhones and such. Others appear to have pro videographers yet the sound is just awful. Are they just doing a poor job or is it this difficult? I mostly hear the distortion from the bass notes. Some examples:

…

Professional recordings sound infinitely better no matter which album I listen to. Any ideas?

When one is paid as videographer, they by definition… they are a professional, and not an amateur.
Do professional recording of pianos sound OK on your system when not a YT vdeo?

From my own reading, pianos are one of the hardest—if not the hardest—musical instrument to mic properly for recording. It's no wonder those recordings are bad—even for YT.

I am not sure I agree with ^that^.
If we assume that the same equipment is used and set up and piano, voice, and a bevy of instruments are all recorded… then the recording is sort of equal.
Human voice is something that we have listened to from a young age, which we can argue is 1 or 2, or as a foetus.
Human voice might be even harder that piano.

But piano and voice is somewhat agreed to as being the most revealing, so a speaker/driver may play a role and be where the lack of convincing is happening.

When I want to know how a system sounds, I do not put on dire straights, I put on sparse and airy vocals and piano.
If it cannot do those, it still might be OK for rock… but it is harder to “Fake it” with vocals and piano. It either sounds real, close to real, or it does not sound real.

Others already covered the Forte aspect.


I mean for a ”Science” site why are we quessing and discussing @amirm ’s ears, I know Spock’s and Yoda’s ears are unique… but I am not going to trust Amir’s ears a whole lot more than Paul ears from PS audio… this is all just a story, and on my iPad I don’t know what to think.

I like Amanda‘s piano from the Dresden Dolls, and it is sometime producing what Amir describes, but the songs are likeable… so I know what he is saying can be real.
And I do not trust streaming a lot, and I trust YT videos even less.

Maybe someone can strip off left and right tracks of those YT videos?
Ideally we/one should be looking a this in the time doimain and see what the clipping is, and whether there is any headroom… and what the crest factor is.
Even professionals can make a mistake, and YT can compress the Piano-Fotre to become the Italian “medie”.

 

[amirm]

Do professional recording of pianos sound OK on your system when not a YT vdeo?

What? How is that related to the topic of the thread? Of course I have a ton of piano music that sound wonderful. I even gave examples on youtubes that do. The question was, how some of these short videos had managed to get good video production values while audio was heavily distorted.

 

[amirm]

I mean for a ”Science” site why are we quessing and discussing @amirm ’s ears, I know Spock’s and Yoda’s ears are unique…

You really didn't read or view the videos in OP, did you? You think the issue of sound is unique to my ears? If you think they sound just fine then I would really question your listening skills....

 

[Holmz]

What? How is that related to the topic of the thread?

Is it anogher thread where someone was talking about your hearing?
I have been looking for the last few minutes, so maybe I got threads mixed.
But I have been looking for that other post - to put it into context…

I am thinking it was the other thread 0 which I am not which one it was ;(

Of course I have a ton of piano music that sound wonderful. I even gave examples on youtubes that do.

Yeah I know you do, but the point is that it is notoriously hard to both record it, and notoriously hard for some systems to play it back.

The question was, how some of these short videos had managed to get good video production values while audio was heavily distorted.

Yeah - I am back on point sir.

Electrically:
It should be in headroom or lack thereof.
Or it should be compression.

Or we need to come up with other mechanisms.
We all know that there is also mic placement etc.

But YT is notoriously liberal with adding in their own spice… and piano is notoriously difficut…
And not all Pros are as pro as to be equal.

 

[Holmz]

Lets ignore my reading comprehension for the moment.

You really didn't read or view the videos in OP, did you? You think the issue of sound is unique to my ears?

I did listen.

This cuts straight to the point.

If you think they sound just fine then I would really question your listening skills....

And the answer is yeah it sounds not far from fine sitting on the sofa with the front door open and the birds chirping, and the iPads speaker playing.
I did not even put in a proper earphone... that died Tuesday on the airplane.

Did it sound bad, well kinda, but not that bad.
Was I willing to turn on the tube pre, and run it though the speakers?
No I was not.
Should I have?
Maybe.

But me sitting on the sofa is about the same as all the other clientele of YT, which are walking around chimping at the screen.
If I had to bet, then I would want you to give me some odds.
I think it probably the recording… but… YT can also play a role.

My laziness is probably high by ASR standards, but compared to YT standards, I but it is a bit above par.

This what we have now:

• The clients are not overly interested in the sonic content as much as the pretty face.
• The Pros know that the image is more important than the sound, and that time is money.
• and piano is not easy tio record or playback.

I am not sure what the %age of people consider themselves audiophiles?
And it likely a bit easier for you to be aware of the sound as you run a forum.
I hardly think about the audio if I am using an raw iPad to research something.

Even with Spotify, I am listening to see if I like the general sound and whether to order the media.
Or a podcast.
Or I put in earphones (IEMs) if I want to listen more intently.

It is a race to the bottom. and getting content out quickly is more import then being accurate.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Real Piano remote recording:

A (the) microphone is visible at 1:20

NPR has some stunning recordings made at their place.
Just amazing sound.

 

[Holmz]

NPR has some stunning recordings made at their place.
Just amazing sound.

Yeah but they are more passionate professionals.
and while they like clicks are much as the next group, I suspect that their content is not driven by the sole desire to make mouse click.

It is not the “Cause” driving what they are doing what they do, the clicks are the “effect” of what they have done.

 

[tomtoo]

To clarify my OP, it wasn't that I was looking for great recordings of the piano. But that I was hope to not hear extreme distortion, compression, modulation, etc. I am watching these videos as inspiration while I am learning to play the piano. But just can't stand it when they sound so terrible.

You are my hero. With all that great knowledge in the reproduction side, now you step into producing side. Learning Piano is hard. To hard for me. But it gave me a very different point of view than i had before.
But i also think to get the neurons steer that slow clumpy fingers the right way while reading a sheet, needs early training. Also funny is that with a real wighted keyboard you train muscels you never thought they exist. And then seeing a small asian woman playing that with eas is fascinating.

 

[Travis]

Wow, 3 plus pages on whether a pianist is really playing or not, or that it doesn’t matter how she plays because the visuals are inspiration enough.

Here is someone that any piano music aficionado is familiar with, that combines the musicianship with the visual (if that’s what’s required for inspiration or motivation), recorded with vertical video (presumably an Iphone in 4K plus) and there is ZERO doubt she is really playing the piano.

I don’t think you will hear any distortion,
Modulation, or other distractions on any of these.

Travis

 

[Travis]

Amir, if you would like help from her on improving your piano playing, she has a platform for that

A free lesson

 

[RayDunzl]

Ran across these while pondering Home recording...

Ok, it's not a piano, but it made me listen all the way through, which is rare for anything on UTube.

https://www.youtube.com/@ChiaraKilchling/videos

 

[thecheapseats]

...Here is someone that any piano music aficionado is familiar with, that combines the musicianship with the visual (if that’s what’s required for inspiration or motivation... there is ZERO doubt she is really playing the piano....

she's a great player - on her site she mentions her teaching lineage precedes back to Franz Liszt (something piano nerds keep track of using a centuries old historical registry) - and it is distinctly reflected in her playing...

 

[thecheapseats]

Ran across these while pondering Home recording...

Ok, it's not a piano, but it made me listen all the way through, which is rare for anything on UTube.

https://www.youtube.com/@ChiaraKilchling/videos

real talent and performance - the recording flatters her as well...

 

[audiofooled]

Recording a piano, also playing it in a way that would flatter the recording equipment or the room you have for a better end result is hard. I find this video really interesting as it contains some practical examples:

 

[thecheapseats]

Recording a piano, also playing it in a way that would flatter the recording equipment or the room you have for a better end result is hard. I find this video really interesting as it contains some practical examples:

this is a great vid by Nahre Sol - she's a phenom player and a composer as well... the engineer that helps her in this vid shows and explains mic placements very clearly... video was shot at Village Recorders in West L.A. - a very well know recording studio...

 

[Holmz]

Recording a piano, also playing it in a way that would flatter the recording equipment or the room you have for a better end result is hard. I find this video really interesting as it contains some practical examples:

And somewhat to the point… her, and the fellow, really care about the recording.
So it is not solely about the visuals.
And the care comes out in a better recording.

Not everyone cares, and one cannot make people care.

 

[badspeakerdesigner]

I don't think piano recording is that tough, I got this done in my really tiny room with an upright I inherited. It's a Lowrey. I like it a lot because it doesn't really seem to have much of the honky tonk that I find most uprights have. I have no training or experience on piano prior to getting this one so go easy on the playing lol. I find most instruments easy to pick up as long as you can understand the mechanical nature to how they make sound and how the instrument handles intervals.

It was recorded with two samson C02's into a behringer umc404. You can still hear the room in some parts, not so much in others. I was happy with it.

piano3 - Clyp

Listen to piano3 | Clyp is the easiest way to record, upload and share audio.

clyp.it

 

[Holmz]

I don't think piano recording is that tough, I got this done in my really tiny room with an upright I inherited. It's a Lowrey. I like it a lot because it doesn't really seem to have much of the honky tonk that I find most uprights have. I have no training or experience on piano prior to getting this one so go easy on the playing lol. I find most instruments easy to pick up as long as you can understand the mechanical nature to how they make sound and how the instrument handles intervals.

It was recorded with two samson C02's into a behringer umc404. You can still hear the room in some parts, not so much in others. I was happy with it.

piano3 - Clyp

Listen to piano3 | Clyp is the easiest way to record, upload and share audio.

clyp.it

Musically that sounds nice… I don’t it know what I was expecting, but it wasn’t that.